Karma And Sin? (morals, reincarnation, beliefs, grace, choices)

[Sunstone]

http://pagansojourn.blogspot.com/200...sin.html#links

Do you agree or disagree with KSojourner's claim that there is a similarity between karma and sin?

What are the similarities, if any, between the notion of karma and the notion of sin?

What are the differences?

Karma is sometimes called "the moral law of cause and effect". Is there some truth to this? If so, does the concept of sin also contain within it a "moral law of cause and effect"?

Is it true that while the concept of karma is impersonal (i.e. karma is an impersonal law like the law of gravity), the concept of sin is personal (i.e. one sins against deity, rather than merely violates an impersonal law)?

Do you suppose that people in ancient India (where the notion of karma originated) and people in the ancient Middle East (where the notion of sin originated) were more or less looking at the same thing and merely describing it differently, or do you suppose that these concepts describe different things? Or, something else altogether?

Is the concept of karma compatible with the Abrahamic religions?

Is the concept of sin compatible with the Dharmic religions?

What do you mean by karma?

What do you mean by sin?

What does your mother think about the fact you get on the internet to talk about sinning?

[Sunstone]

Is it sinful to believe in karma, or is it just bad karma to believe in sin?

[bigvindaloo]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

http://pagansojourn.blogspot.com/200...sin.html#links

Do you agree or disagree with KSojourner's claim that there is a similarity between karma and sin?

What are the similarities, if any, between the notion of karma and the notion of sin?

What are the differences?

Karma is sometimes called "the moral law of cause and effect". Is there some truth to this? If so, does the concept of sin also contain within it a "moral law of cause and effect"?

Is it true that while the concept of karma is impersonal (i.e. karma is an impersonal law like the law of gravity), the concept of sin is personal (i.e. one sins against deity, rather than merely violates an impersonal law)?

Do you suppose that people in ancient India (where the notion of karma originated) and people in the ancient Middle East (where the notion of sin originated) were more or less looking at the same thing and merely describing it differently, or do you suppose that these concepts describe different things? Or, something else altogether?

Is the concept of karma compatible with the Abrahamic religions?

Is the concept of sin compatible with the Dharmic religions?

What do you mean by karma?

What do you mean by sin?

What does your mother think about the fact you get on the internet to talk about sinning?

I think sin is an interpretation of Karma. Karma for mine is a physical law with observable reality. Sin is a label we ascribe to observations of karma in action.

[Draka]

I see a difference in them. While they both in a way lend towards people having a tendency to "do the right thing", there is a difference in what they are. I don't think they are two different words for the same concept.

There is the positive aspect of karma that "sin" doesn't cover. Karma is merely the belief that what you send out comes back to you. It is balance. You build up your positive karma and try to keep down your negative karma. Karma affects your life, not afterlife. Most that believe in karma believe in reincarnation. It is not the afterlife that is affected by karma but either this life or the next. It is something that you must reap the rewards of or suffer the consequences of while living and live through it. Your afterlife, or Summerland stay between lives, is determined by yourself and your self assessment. Karma is determined by cosmic balance.

The concept of "sin" I tend to think of as a parental wag of the finger. It is something done "against" a deity that is not paid for while living, but eternally punished for after death. I see them as two completely different things.

[KSojourner]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Do you agree or disagree with KSojourner's claim that there is a similarity between karma and sin?

Whoa! Wait a sec. LOL

I never "claimed" that there is a "similarity" between the two. It was just something that I thought about after I heard that line in Rob Roy.

I think that they are two distinct concepts. I was, however, implying that there MAY a connection in that they both talk about how they effect one's after life.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

http://pagansojourn.blogspot.com/200...sin.html#links

Do you agree or disagree with KSojourner's claim that there is a similarity between karma and sin?

I agree that they both have to do with the quality of the choices we make in life, the idea that we are responsible for our actions.

What are the similarities, if any, between the notion of karma and the notion of sin?

As above, they both concern ethics, morals, "right actions." Both could be considered dogmatic beliefs, although both also point to experiential reality as well.

What are the differences?

Sin also implies possible forgiveness, repentence, or reconcilition. In Karma there is no escaping the consequences of poor choices, there is no mercy. Whatever wrongs you do must be corrected by right actions, and then some. I think the concept of sin acknowledges that we can never really make up for all the bad things we do, but we can "be accepted, in spite of being unacceptable."

Karma is sometimes called "the moral law of cause and effect". Is there some truth to this? If so, does the concept of sin also contain within it a "moral law of cause and effect"?

Yes, sin does in part contain a law of cause and effect. The OT is pretty much full of God saying be good to each other, then the Israelites not being good to each other, and then bad things happening because of they chose to not take God's advice. Yet there is also the concept of grace in religions that have the concept of sin. Grace breaks the karmic cycle.

Is it true that while the concept of karma is impersonal (i.e. karma is an impersonal law like the law of gravity), the concept of sin is personal (i.e. one sins against deity, rather than merely violates an impersonal law)?

I think so.

Do you suppose that people in ancient India (where the notion of karma originated) and people in the ancient Middle East (where the notion of sin originated) were more or less looking at the same thing and merely describing it differently, or do you suppose that these concepts describe different things? Or, something else altogether?

Yes, I believe they are related concepts; hard to say if they were independently derived but I would guess that there was cross-seeding of these ideas. But again, the concept of a personal God drastically changed the nature of how people viewed responsibility for their actions, and how they viewed the future. I think in the Abrahamic religions the idea that the future could be different and better than the past made them radically different from the Eastern religions.

Is the concept of karma compatible with the Abrahamic religions?

As you sow so shall you reap. Yes. But it does not end there.

Is the concept of sin compatible with the Dharmic religions?

I would say only in those that believe in a personal God.

What do you mean by karma?

A cosmic balance in which you recieve payment in full for your actions, right and wrong.

What do you mean by sin?

Missing the mark, the mark being something similar to "skilled" actions, compassion, loving-kindness, doing the the will of God.

What does your mother think about the fact you get on the internet to talk about sinning?

She would not be surprised.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by KSojourner

Whoa! Wait a sec. LOL

I never "claimed" that there is a "similarity" between the two. It was just something that I thought about after I heard that line in Rob Roy.

I think that they are two distinct concepts. I was, however, implying that there MAY a connection in that they both talk about how they effect one's after life.

I happily stand corrected. Obviously, I had not drank nearly enough coffee yet when I read your blog. My apologies.

[KSojourner]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

I happily stand corrected. Obviously, I had not drank nearly enough coffee yet when I read your blog. My apologies.

LOL, we all need our coffee!