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  #11  
Old 07-25-2006, 12:19 PM
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God wants to have a relationship with each and every one of us: he loves us and wants us to love him back.

Being with God is being in heaven.

Being away from God is hell.

God isn't going to force us to love him. He will respect our decision either way.

But you can't have a relationship with God without believing he exists. That's rather obvious to me.
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  #12  
Old 07-25-2006, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
Something about having the human species extend their faculities beyond the emperical plane brings some form of benefit to a person and to the whole family of the human species. Or else, why do it?
What about the atheists/humanists who "extend their faculties beyond the empirical plane" without a belief in god? Are their efforts less worthy because of their lack of faith? If this "extension" is the goal of god, why require belief if it can occur without it?
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  #13  
Old 07-25-2006, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetDoc
But you can't have a relationship with God without believing he exists. That's rather obvious to me.
Is it really so obvious? What about those that embody love in their daily lives, but because of negative experiences in their past disavow a belief in god? These typically are not "hard" atheists, but either "soft" atheists or agnostics. Are they just not using the right name, or is there something here that they are missing by not explicitly believing in god? If so, what?
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  #14  
Old 07-25-2006, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonE
Is it really so obvious? What about those that embody love in their daily lives, but because of negative experiences in their past disavow a belief in god? These typically are not "hard" atheists, but either "soft" atheists or agnostics. Are they just not using the right name, or is there something here that they are missing by not explicitly believing in god? If so, what?
The thing that you are missing is that those people don't have a relationship with god.
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  #15  
Old 07-25-2006, 12:36 PM
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Great point Brandon! Perhaps a selfless love is an admission that God exists, albeit a covert admission.

Many ascribe to a higher power or purpose without ever naming that power. Just as there are many who verbally ascribe to God and yet their lives show no love, I am certain there are many who show love but can not verbally accept God.

We love God by loving others.
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  #16  
Old 07-25-2006, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willamena
The thing that you are missing is that those people don't have a relationship with god.
Who's to really say? Do you have the keys to the kingdom?
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  #17  
Old 07-25-2006, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetDoc
Great point Brandon! Perhaps a selfless love is an admission that God exists, albeit a covert admission.

Many ascribe to a higher power or purpose without ever naming that power. Just as there are many who verbally ascribe to God and yet their lives show no love, I am certain there are many who show love but can not verbally accept God.

We love God by loving others.
I'll follow you there, but hold onto my agnosticism.
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  #18  
Old 07-25-2006, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetDoc
Great point Brandon! Perhaps a selfless love is an admission that God exists, albeit a covert admission.

Many ascribe to a higher power or purpose without ever naming that power. Just as there are many who verbally ascribe to God and yet their lives show no love, I am certain there are many who show love but can not verbally accept God.

We love God by loving others.
It is not necesary to believe in deity to love, is it?
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  #19  
Old 07-25-2006, 12:42 PM
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