Why do you believe there is a God? (Jesus Christ, doctrine)

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Poster

This is what I was trying to get at, everyone thinks they have the true religion, even had they been born on Mars they like to think they would have been able to seek out and find the religion they have now, deny everything they were taught to believe as children and convert to their true religion, (the one they have now)
they never seem to ask themselves why they don't seek out and find another religion, (perhaps the one they should have had) that could be the true religion.

Here's where you make the mistake, I think.

1. I don't believe I have the true religion. I believe I have the best religion for me at this time. I may yet find something that explains the world and my place in it even better, and believe I would be a fool indeed not to be open to that possibility.

2. I don't believe there *is* such a thing as "the" true religion. From my pov, they are all pretty much true, at least in origin and essentials. I may not agree with the details, but then people don't agree with the details of mine either, so we're even on that score.

3. I did at one time deny what I was taught as a child. I called that atheism. You could say I have a track record in this regard.

And a big "fwiw" -- it was much more difficult from a family, friends and otherwise social pov to convert to the religion I follow now that it was to be an atheist. To be an atheist made me a curiousity, but that was the worst of it.

When I wrote "had you been born in a Jewish kibbutz do you think you would still be a Catholic or a Mormon?" I should have added "or any other doctrine", including Atheism. (The only reason we are Atheists is because someone messed up, had they not we would be as deep into religion as the rest) Sorry.

Thanks for the clarification. But I think I've also been fairly clear by now -- I can honestly answer that I would have diverged from what I was taught -- because *I have already done so*.

Even when someone remains in the religion in which they were raised, it would be wrong to assume that they have not at some point in their life questioned the veracity of their religion. I've rarely found someone who has just blindly followed the religion they were raised with.

It's easy to assume that because there has been no change, there was no reflection or search, but it's just that -- an assumption.

In my experience, that sort of assumption usually turns out to be far too hasty and not-so-well informed.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

Would you mind repeating that for the class? If you're an athiest because someone in your life "messed up" and caused you not to believe, for the love of rock please don't foist that off on every other athiest. Your personal experience isn't shared by everyone else.
I'm sure most athiests here, including myself, have very different reasons for being so.

Even some of us former atheists. No one "messed up." I just didn't believe some of the core stuff -- like that little bit about God existing, for example.

[Poster]

When I used the words "messed up" I was thinking about Muslims, they are the masters of religion, if you are brought up a true Muslim you have a snowball in hells chance of deciding for yourself not to be a Muslim.
Not true about all Atheists but I think we were brought up mostly without any religion,
or it was never a big thing, had it been a big thing they would not have found it so easy to break free and be an Atheist, had you been brought up properly in a religion, to be an Atheist would never have entered your mind, hence the use of the words "messed up".

[retrorich]

Originally Posted by Poster

When I used the words "messed up" I was thinking about Muslims, they are the masters of religion, if you are brought up a true Muslim you have a snowball in hells chance of deciding for yourself not to be a Muslim.
Not true about all Atheists but I think we were brought up mostly without any religion,
or it was never a big thing, had it been a big thing they would not have found it so easy to break free and be an Atheist, had you been brought up properly in a religion, to be an Atheist would never have entered your mind, hence the use of the words "messed up".

When I was growing up, I had Christianity shoved down my throat. I was, and still am, so happy to be free from it!

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Poster

When I used the words "messed up" I was thinking about Muslims, they are the masters of religion, if you are brought up a true Muslim you have a snowball in hells chance of deciding for yourself not to be a Muslim.

Methinks you do not get out enough.

If this were true, then my religion would not be the largest minority religion in Iran, for example.

Hm. And then there are all the individuals I've known who converted away from Islam, To list them is pointless, since I can hardly set you up for an interview or anything.

Not true about all Atheists but I think we were brought up mostly without any religion,
or it was never a big thing, had it been a big thing they would not have found it so easy to break free and be an Atheist, had you been brought up properly in a religion, to be an Atheist would never have entered your mind, hence the use of the words "messed up".

See above.

It occurs to me to offer you an unasked for suggestion -- this is an ideal place to just talk to people on an individual level and see what road they have taken to get to where they are now.

Not only will that likely correct some of the misinformed ideas you seem to be working with, it's a very pleasant way to spend some time.

[PureX]

Originally Posted by Poster

Have you ever asked yourself why you believe in a God?
by that I mean, do you believe because you were brought up to believe?
did you come to believe after a long search for a meaning to life?
have you always believed? do you believe because someone else believes?

I don't suppose for one minute you can answer this question truthfully,
you will give a lot of reasons but I expect the answers will be that it was mainly
your idea, you came to God of your own free will,
and the society you live in had nothing to do with your believing as you do,

had you been born and raised in a Jewish kibbutz do you think you would still be a Catholic or a Mormon?

I can't say that I "believe" that God exists. It would be more accurate to say that I hope God exists, and is expressing Itself in the world as love, generosity, forgiveness, peace, etc.

It's only natural that we should have adopted some of the ideas we've come across in our lives, including some religious ideas. If they work for us, why wouldn't we?

[Poster]

Originally Posted by Booko

Methinks you do not get out enough.

If this were true, then my religion would not be the largest minority religion in Iran, for example.

Hm. And then there are all the individuals I've known who converted away from Islam, To list them is pointless, since I can hardly set you up for an interview or anything.

Which only proves my point,
had the job been done properly in the first place they would not have converted, they would not have been given a choice, therfore someone or the system messed up.

[finalfrogo]

I wan't brought up to believe anything. My parents don't think beliefs should be learned rather than inherited. (Although this in itself is a belief I've inherited from them. But enough over-anyalization. )

I believe that "God" is simply "The complete, total value of everything that exists in all dimensions." Since I have no reason to believe everything doesn't exist (it is everything, after all), I have no reason to disbelieve in God as I see Him/Her/It (I haven't really decided what to use for a pronoun, ).

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Poster

Which only proves my point,
had the job been done properly in the first place they would not have converted, they would not have been given a choice, therfore someone or the system messed up.

So, according to your logic, if Islam teaches "Let there be no compulsion in religion," which means you shouldn't be forced into it or brainwashed, then they mess up if they actually obey their own rule.

Yeah, that's logical...uh...not.