Why do you believe there is a God? (Jesus Christ, doctrine)

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by Poster

(The only reason we are Atheists is because someone messed up, had they not we would be as deep into religion as the rest) Sorry.

Would you mind repeating that for the class? If you're an athiest because someone in your life "messed up" and caused you not to believe, for the love of rock please don't foist that off on every other athiest. Your personal experience isn't shared by everyone else.
I'm sure most athiests here, including myself, have very different reasons for being so.

[BrandonE]

Originally Posted by Poster

This is what I was trying to get at, everyone thinks they have the true religion, even had they been born on Mars they like to think they would have been able to seek out and find the religion they have now, deny everything they were taught to believe as children and convert to their true religion, (the one they have now)
they never seem to ask themselves why they don't seek out and find another religion, (perhaps the one they should have had) that could be the true religion.

When I wrote "had you been born in a Jewish kibbutz do you think you would still be a Catholic or a Mormon?" I should have added "or any other doctrine", including Atheism. (The only reason we are Atheists is because someone messed up, had they not we would be as deep into religion as the rest) Sorry.

I think I see what you're saying, but don't agree that a change of religion necessarily means that a parent "messed up". I think rather that we question (and possibly change) religions when our individual view of the world (composed of what we've been taught, what we've experienced and what we've intuited for ourselves) doesn't match completely with the religion with which we identify.

I don't think, for instance that my parents failed to bring me up correctly, but rather, the experiences that I had and the intuitions that I had led me away from that initial path. Someone else in a very similar situation could respond by clinging ever more tightly to what they were raised with.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by Poster

I don't suppose for one minute you can answer this question truthfully,
you will give a lot of reasons but I expect the answers will be that it was mainly
your idea, you came to God of your own free will,
and the society you live in had nothing to do with your believing as you do,

had you been born and raised in a Jewish kibbutz do you think you would still be a Catholic or a Mormon?

In the first place, how would you judge whether someone else was answering truthfully or not? Wouldn't that amount in practice to your assumption that if their experience didn't match your own, you would discount their truthfulness? And, if so, doesn't that rest on the absurd notion that everyone's experience is the same?

In the second place, it does not follow from the fact that a person was raised a Christian (or a Jew, or a Muslim, etc) that they have never chosen to be a Christian, etc. Exposure to something does not preclude choice. While I am sure there are many people who have never given the religion of their childhood a second thought, there are likewise many people who actively chose, at some time in their life, to believe the religion they were raised with. That is, it is not a mere assumption for them.

Just a couple quibbles with the assumptions you are making.

BTW, Welcome to the Forums!

[retrorich]

Why do you believe there is a God?

I don't

[michel]

Originally Posted by Poster

Have you ever asked yourself why you believe in a God?

many times.

by that I mean, do you believe because you were brought up to believe?

I wasn't.

did you come to believe after a long search for a meaning to life?

Perhaps there was an element of that to it.

have you always believed? do you believe because someone else believes?

question 1, No. Question 2, what anyone else thinks has no impact on my relationship with what I call God.

I don't suppose for one minute you can answer this question truthfully,
you will give a lot of reasons but I expect the answers will be that it was mainly
your idea, you came to God of your own free will,
and the society you live in had nothing to do with your believing as you do,

I'm rather upset that you suggest that I would be untruthful.............

I did 'find' God from my own free will; the society I lived in was devoid of Religious people.

had you been born and raised in a Jewish kibbutz do you think you would still be a Catholic or a Mormon?

I obviously can't answer to an even I haven't experienced, but I see why you ask. I don't honestly know.

I was brought up with very little religion in my life; my father was an ex comunicated Catholic, and my Mother was a non practicing Anglican. Of course, the society in which I was brought up had churches, and at school, we had to chapel, it meant nothing whatsoever to me.

[retrorich]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I seriously feel as if I were born believing in God.

I was raised believing in God. But as soon as I was able to think for myself, I stopped believing in such nonsense. Thank God!

[robtex]

I think for most of the religious people I know faith is reasonable standard of ontology and acceptance of St Thomas Aquina's first mover arguement which is also known as the cosmological arguement. Even if they don't openly state these things the premise of "God created the universe" (cosomological arguement) and "I believe" (faith as standard of ontology) seems pretty consistant.

I also think the arguement from need, though not articulated often, is a high ranking motive for belief. The arguement from need being, "I need for a God to exist therefore he does."

[Happier]

Originally Posted by Poster

Have you ever asked yourself why you believe in a God?
by that I mean, do you believe because you were brought up to believe?
did you come to believe after a long search for a meaning to life?
have you always believed? do you believe because someone else believes?

I don't suppose for one minute you can answer this question truthfully,
you will give a lot of reasons but I expect the answers will be that it was mainly
your idea, you came to God of your own free will,
and the society you live in had nothing to do with your believing as you do,

had you been born and raised in a Jewish kibbutz do you think you would still be a Catholic or a Mormon?

Your confrontational and disrespectful tone aside, your basic argument that conversion and religious experience is only the result of social conditioning is utter hogwash in the face of Christianity. I'll adddress this from a strictly Christian POV rather than addressing religiosity in general.


Read the conversion of Saul of Tarsus in the NT - he went against everything he was taught and raised to believe his entire life, after one brief encounter.


A great many children in Sunday schools revolt by the age of 11, and many times teenaged children of clergy families decide to have nothing more to do with religion.


Many millions of people in China, the USSR (when it still existed), India, and Pakistan became Christians in the face of brutal persecution. Many more are doing so today.


Why does Christianity spread in countries inherently hostile to its beliefs? Why is it that so many countries find it necessary to pass laws prohibiting Christianity? Why have some countries (AND other religions) gone to such extremes -- and made conversion to Christianity a crime punishable by imprisonment or death?


Prisons around the world are full of Christians who are certainly not there because they are socially conditioned toward the faith. Everything in their environment inclines them in the direction of atheism and dialectical materialism. Yet Communism and other anti-Christian philosophies are totally unable to stop the growth of Christian conversions in these countries.


Christianity as a result of social conditioning? Ha. The exact opposite is true: Every true Christian is a convert - including me. It's impossible to have a personal relationship with Christ otherwise -- and that relationship is the heart of Christianity. Ask any Christian if this is not so.


If anyone wishes to counter these points, please do so in the same context, which was the OPs opinion that religion (I specifically addressed Christianity) is only the result of social conditioning.