Does the universe need a cause? (Creator, theist, eternal, point of view)

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

To say that the universe was caused, is to say that the "causer" adheres to natural laws.

This is indeed a leap of faith. I would like to see you prove this one point. Go ahead, I'll get the popcorn.

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

The universe has a cause whether it "needs" one or not, as does every created thing.

Simple as that!

Peace,

Bruce

[Revasser]

Originally Posted by BruceDLimber

Greetings!

The universe has a cause whether it "needs" one or not, as does every created thing.

Simple as that!

Peace,

Bruce

But why begin with the assumption that the universe is a created thing at all?

As RFX posted earlier, it may well be eternal.

[BruceDLimber]

Originally Posted by Revasser

But why begin with the assumption that the universe is a created thing at all?

Simple.

Because multiple scriptures which I accept state that it is....

Peace,

Bruce

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by BruceDLimber

Simple.

Because multiple scriptures which I accept state that it is....

Peace,

Bruce

Lol, scripture may be wrong, so i'd appreciate if you did not state it as fact.
It would be better to say:
"I believe that the universe has a cause whether it "needs" one or not, as does every created thing."

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

Lol, scripture may be wrong, so i'd appreciate if you did not state it as fact.

That's a bit disingenuous. Reread his comments.

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

To say that the universe was caused, is to say that the "causer" adheres to natural laws.
This is indeed a leap of faith. I would like to see you prove this one point. Go ahead, I'll get the popcorn.

Got the popcorn? Ok, i'll begin, lol. Many believe that everything that exists has a cause. Ie the famous watchmaker argument. To say that something wasn't caused is to say it goes against the laws of nature(some claim). So God, in creating the universe, must have adhered to these natural laws. This is the basis for the theists argument. If we take away the natural law, then we are left in a position where nothing needs a cause to exist, so the universe could have formed without a cause(God). Also, before there were natural laws(if there ever was a time)nothing would need a cause to exist, so the natural laws could have formed without a cause. God is not needed to explain the universe and nature. The only basis i can see for believing that God created the universe, is through Michels beliefs that God is nature.

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule

That's a bit disingenuous. Reread his comments.

I quoted the wrong post

"Greetings!

The universe has a cause whether it "needs" one or not, as does every created thing.

Simple as that!

Peace,

Bruce"

Only after Revasser posted

But why begin with the assumption that the universe is a created thing at all?

did bruce say that it was what he accepts.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Radio Frequency X

Nothing causes existance. Existence is the original set of propositions. Everything that exists is depandent on the fact that existence is reality, and that there is no difference between the two.

But there is a difference between the two. We have, in our language, which reflects our philosophy of the world, accommodation for unreal things.

Things exist.