Only extremists or monks go to heaven? (moral, tradition, Buddhism)

[bigvindaloo]

Modern life leaves and desires so much antithetical behaviour particularly if one is a householder struggling to make ends meet. Who amongst religious persons has the time respect their faith? Nuclear families ruled with a religious iron fist seem dysfunctional. Who amongst us other than extremists or monks has the capacity to ensure that their behaviour corresponds to their beliefs, giving them an opportunity to access the heaven their religion promises?

[michel]

Originally Posted by bigvindaloo

Modern life leaves and desires so much antithetical behaviour particularly if one is a householder struggling to make ends meet. Who amongst religious persons has the time respect their faith? Nuclear families ruled with a religious iron fist seem dysfunctional. Who amongst us other than extremists or monks has the capacity to ensure that their behaviour corresponds to their beliefs, giving them an opportunity to access the heaven their religion promises?

I can understand what you are saying, but I do see things a little differently. Making time for God (or spending time worshipping your Deity) is basically just something to find time for.

I realised a few years back "Oh, I never have enough time to do so and so.." People usually have a routine which includes recreation, relaxation, whatever.

There is the time; whether or not we chose to use that time the way our Faith would like us to is another matter.

[Engyo]

Originally Posted by bigvindaloo

Modern life leaves and desires so much antithetical behaviour particularly if one is a householder struggling to make ends meet. Who amongst religious persons has the time respect their faith? Nuclear families ruled with a religious iron fist seem dysfunctional. Who amongst us other than extremists or monks has the capacity to ensure that their behaviour corresponds to their beliefs, giving them an opportunity to access the heaven their religion promises?

Bigvandaloo -

All I can speak to is my own form of Buddhism. Our practice is something that is accessible to a normal working/family person in today's society, should they chose to do so. Unfortunately, our practice doesn't lead to any sort of heaven, other than the increase of happiness and reduction of suffering in this lifetime, and progress on the path towards enlightenment.

[bigvindaloo]

Originally Posted by Engyo

Bigvandaloo -

All I can speak to is my own form of Buddhism. Our practice is something that is accessible to a normal working/family person in today's society, should they chose to do so. Unfortunately, our practice doesn't lead to any sort of heaven, other than the increase of happiness and reduction of suffering in this lifetime, and progress on the path towards enlightenment.

This may seem like an advertisement for Buddhism. My own feeling is that Buddhist teaching does not rely on an iron fist despite time constraints although I am sure Buddhist extremism within the family is possible especially under a Western mode of life. But, Buddhist practice is extremely time consuming. Not that time is a worry for a monk or extremist.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by bigvindaloo

Modern life leaves and desires so much antithetical behaviour particularly if one is a householder struggling to make ends meet. Who amongst religious persons has the time respect their faith? Nuclear families ruled with a religious iron fist seem dysfunctional. Who amongst us other than extremists or monks has the capacity to ensure that their behaviour corresponds to their beliefs, giving them an opportunity to access the heaven their religion promises?

You are asking this of a society in which people typically spend hours each week playing video games and watching TV. Surely if folks wanted to find the time for prayer, meditation, study, etc. they could, for such activities as playing video games and watching TV are just as discretionary as prayer, etc. The problem might not be a lack of time at all, but a lack of genuine interest.

The other thought I have about this: Of what value to a householder is a religion impractical for a householder? If a certain religion actually requires a monastic environment, and one wishes to follow it, then why try to be a householder? Why not go become a monk?

[Engyo]

Originally Posted by bigvindaloo

This may seem like an advertisement for Buddhism. My own feeling is that Buddhist teaching does not rely on an iron fist despite time constraints although I am sure Buddhist extremism within the family is possible especially under a Western mode of life. But, Buddhist practice is extremely time consuming. Not that time is a worry for a monk or extremist.

BigVindaloo -

For my particular tradition, practice take whatever time you are able to devote to it. If that is 5 minutes per day, or 4 hours per day, then one does what one can. Of course, if one chooses to devote only 5 minutes per day when more time is available, then one's results will vary accordingly. Obviously progress towards enlightenment will be somewhat dependent on time spent, but I find that sincerity is at least as important as any specific amount of clock/calendar time in determining results.

[bigvindaloo]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

You are asking this of a society in which people typically spend hours each week playing video games and watching TV. Surely if folks wanted to find the time for prayer, meditation, study, etc. they could, for such activities as playing video games and watching TV are just as discretionary as prayer, etc. The problem might not be a lack of time at all, but a lack of genuine interest.

The other thought I have about this: Of what value to a householder is a religion impractical for a householder? If a certain religion actually requires a monastic environment, and one wishes to follow it, then why try to be a householder? Why not go become a monk?

I guess the OP does not view belief as a "discretionary practice" rather as a way of life, otherwise committment is in question. Is heaven further off if religion is a discretionary practice? Most religions provide a code of practice or morality at the very least.

I'm not sure any religion "requires" a monastic environment, but practice certainly would be facilitated by it. Any religion requiring a monastic lifestyle would have few adherents. I am also assuming the status of householder is the norm (otherwise homeless), and more easily facilitated in our society than a monastic lifestyle.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by bigvindaloo

Modern life leaves and desires so much antithetical behaviour particularly if one is a householder struggling to make ends meet. Who amongst religious persons has the time respect their faith? Nuclear families ruled with a religious iron fist seem dysfunctional. Who amongst us other than extremists or monks has the capacity to ensure that their behaviour corresponds to their beliefs, giving them an opportunity to access the heaven their religion promises?

depends upon the religious belief adhered to.... i believe that the relationship between me and my Gods can be strong at times, and weak at times, but it is still there simply by my spirit/soul/essence being in existence - so long as i am connected to them as i believe i am, i will run free in the fields i believe i am promised

i can't, however, say how others reconcile this with their beliefs.