Possible to be happy without God? (ritual, soul, atheist, eternal)

[Hope]

Good question, Feathers. ( Oh, and by the way, speaking of 'joy', I noticed your title--very nice! )

Hmmm....in my experience, at least, 'religion' can definitely be corrupted. But I put my faith, and religion, in two different categories. They are not really interchangeable. My faith is what I live by, and what is most important to me, and something very personal, so, no, I don't think it could ever be taken away from me or corrupted. Religion, though, especially as it is known through man-made institutions and organizations, can definitely be corrupted.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Hope

Hmmm....in my experience, at least, 'religion' can definitely be corrupted. But I put my faith, and religion, in two different categories. They are not really interchangeable. My faith is what I live by, and what is most important to me, and something very personal, so, no, I don't think it could ever be taken away from me or corrupted. Religion, though, especially as it is known through man-made institutions and organizations, can definitely be corrupted.

Excellent point. May I add a "me too?"

[johnnys4life]

Personally, I do believe that it is possible to be happy without a good relationship with God, as long as things are going well. I once heard a Rabbi say that he talked to a great many survivors of the holecaust, and heard many accounts of selfishness, and of self-sacrifice and kindness. And he said that although there were some "believers" who became selfish in the face of severe distress, it really struck him how he has still never heard of an account of a selfless atheist when it really came down to it.

When things go wrong, there are wars, famines, diseases, etcetera, those who have faith in God have the ability to get through it and remain at peace because they realize it is all part of a larger plan, and there is a beautiful eternity awaiting to make up for any "injustices" or sufferings recieved on earth. Atheists do not have that assurance, and most of the atheists and agnostics I know see the world as a place for them to experience earthly pleasures and joys, and when those are taken away, what is left?

[Melody]

Originally Posted by johnnys4life

And he said that although there were some "believers" who became selfish in the face of severe distress, it really struck him how he has still never heard of an account of a selfless atheist when it really came down to it.

Atheists do not have that assurance, and most of the atheists and agnostics I know see the world as a place for them to experience earthly pleasures and joys, and when those are taken away, what is left?

I'll have to disagree with you on this. My husband is an agnostic and his parents are atheists and they are the most moral/ethical, tolerant people I have ever met. Well, ok, they don't suffer fools glady but other than that....
Pleasure seekers? I am ROFL at the thought of my husband and in-laws as lotus eaters.

I know way too many people who are agnostic or atheist and who invest a lot of time and money in helping others because they feel it is the duty of those who have to help those who haven't.

No...I think the reason this person has never seen a real "selfless" atheist is because he didn't want to see because it might blow his theory.

[The Voice of Reason]

Originally Posted by johnnys4life

Personally, I do believe that it is possible to be happy without a good relationship with God, as long as things are going well. I once heard a Rabbi say that he talked to a great many survivors of the holecaust, and heard many accounts of selfishness, and of self-sacrifice and kindness. And he said that although there were some "believers" who became selfish in the face of severe distress, it really struck him how he has still never heard of an account of a selfless atheist when it really came down to it.

When things go wrong, there are wars, famines, diseases, etcetera, those who have faith in God have the ability to get through it and remain at peace because they realize it is all part of a larger plan, and there is a beautiful eternity awaiting to make up for any "injustices" or sufferings recieved on earth. Atheists do not have that assurance, and most of the atheists and agnostics I know see the world as a place for them to experience earthly pleasures and joys, and when those are taken away, what is left?

I couldn't agree with Melody's reply more strongly - I'm guessing that you don't spend much time in discourse with those Godless, selfish Atheists, do you? I wonder how many of the holocaust survivors your Rabbi met were Atheists? I don't suppose you could go to the trouble of finding some reliable study conducted to show what percentage of the "selfish population" is Atheistic as opposed to Christian?

For what it's worth, I once met an Atheist that did not have horns growing out of his head, nor were his feet cloven hooves.

As a question - the Biblical verse you selected as your signature - do you think that there is an implication beyond what the verse actually says?

TVOR

[Mr Spinkles]

To refine the question: it should really be "Can people be happy without believing in God?" I assume that God's existence does not depend on whether or not we believe He exists. So the real difference here is belief. Can people be happy without beleiving in God?

The answer, in my experience, is yes. In fact, I am even more happy now than I was when I believed in God, something that really surprised me (I realized I was an atheist a bit reluctantly, and expecting that I would no longer be as happy as I was before). I considered myself happy back when I believed in God...at times, I dwelled a bit on how unworthy I am, how sinful I am, etc., but I basically realized that God didn't give His son for us so that we could be gloomy and depressed about how unworthy we are. So I found a great joy deep inside me that stemmed from the fact that God loves me and wants me to be happy.

Having said that, it has come as a great surprise to me that I am even happier now than I was before. No, not happier as in I have abandoned my morals and all I do is satisfy my senses blah blah blah. My morals are just as strong now as they were before...in fact, my core values are exactly the same--be selfless, do what's right even when it isn't what benefits me the most, don't hate, refuse to fight, do everything in moderation. For more info about why I feel happy sans belief in God, see my post here: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum...5339#post25339

[anders]

Originally Posted by Mr_Spinkles

... Can people be happy without beleiving in God?

The answer, in my experience, is yes. In fact, I am even more happy now than I was when I believed in God, ... No, not happier as in I have abandoned my morals and all I do is satisfy my senses blah blah blah. My morals are just as strong now as they were before...

This pretty much describes my own situation. I can't attribute all the happiness just to my conversion, but it sure helps. I think that the feeling of contentedness and the moral strength might come from having no fetters or crutches from religion. I am free to make my own decisions in such a way that I can defend them before myself and other living beings. I don't have to be scared of how some invisible, silent entity will judge my decisions.

[Ceridwen018]

at times, I dwelled a bit on how unworthy I am, how sinful I am, etc., but I basically realized that God didn't give His son for us so that we could be gloomy and depressed about how unworthy we are.

GOD: Arthur! Arthur, King of the Britons! Oh, don't grovel! If there's one thing I can't stand, it's people groveling.

ARTHUR: Sorry--

GOD: And don't apologize. Every time I try to talk to someone it's "sorry this" and "forgive me that" and "I'm not worthy". What are you doing now!?

ARTHUR: I'm averting my eyes, oh Lord.

GOD: Well, don't. It's like those miserable Psalms -- they're so depressing. Now knock it off! ARTHUR: Yes, Lord.

This is the first thing that popped into my head, .