Possible to be happy without God? (ritual, soul, atheist, eternal)

[Jaymes]

Whoops, forgot to add this to my last post:

What about people who have been Christian, didn't agree with it, have given up God and are now happier than when they were Christians? (Not directed at anyone in particular; just a general question)

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Jensa

Whoops, forgot to add this to my last post:

What about people who have been Christian, didn't agree with it, have given up God and are now happier than when they were Christians? (Not directed at anyone in particular; just a general question)

I would say that they were a little to close to the Christian "religion" rather than to God because if they had a relationship with God, they wouldn't have given it up.

Go ahead and burn me in effigy now but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Paraprakrti]

Originally Posted by Jensa

That's like saying, "If everyone can eat, why are there hungry people?" Just because there is the capacity to do something, it doesn't mean it will happen.

That, and some people just aren't happy unless they're miserable.

But see, beside the fact that you must keep eating time and time again, some people are hungry because they lack food, although the capacity is still there. The capacity to enjoy is there also. But apparently people are not all happy. People who seek misery to be happy are conditioned in such a way that they define their happiness by its contrast to their misery. If that's what a person wants, they can have it. God made this world so that we could be happy. Whether we accept or not, we are happy because we have been given the facility to be happy by God. If we are not happy then we should rectify our position by surrendering to the One who holds the key to our happiness. This thread is pointless because the argument will come down to the existence of God. If we all hypothetically accept God's existence then we should also know that God is responsible for the happiness we experience here. Even when we seek to be happy away from God, it is only due to God that we are ever happy, for those fleeting moments. Our unhappiness comes with our ignorance.

Originally Posted by Jensa

Because we're human, and we continually fall on our asses and make fools of ourself and stumble blindly and confusedly about. We're not perfect, and like all things, happiness can't last forever. It is possible to find new reasons for happiness, though.

This is your conclusion: perpectual cycle of happiness and unhappiness. If that makes you happy. Nevertheless, God is overall responsible for this facility you have.

Originally Posted by Jensa

Personally, I blame it on society. "You need this super fast car to be popular! You need to weight 10 pounds to look pretty!" I think more people would be happy if there were more warm fuzzy vibes in the media.

Perhaps. I wouldn't go as far as to say that this is a remedy for material suffering. But it appears that most people here accept suffering to some degree. As if it is inescapable. People are going to accept happiness as far as they can perceive it.

Originally Posted by Jensa

But alas, warm fuzzy does not sell as well as gore and violence and popularity. So I doubt it'll happen any time soon.

Good observation. And I am sure more than plenty of people are unhappy about this (particularly the victims). Whatever side of the fence we identify with, just consider that God has given us the facility to enjoy what we do. And if we are not satisfied then we have the perfect facility for returning to God's Personal association. It's not such a bad deal after all.

[Paraprakrti]

Originally Posted by Ceridwen018

Because you still believe in god, silly!

My question was not directed to anyone in specific. Your reply should also be non-specific. If you are happy, that is fine. You keep doing what you are doing. I am ecstatic, especially being as silly as I am. Both of our situations are due to the grace of God.

Originally Posted by Ceridwen018

There is no such thing as life without pain and despair. The sooner people realize that and stop tryingt to be happy ALL the time, the sooner they will be able to settle down and find true happiness that lasts.

By trying to be happy, we fail. So I agree that people should stop trying to be happy all the time. What you describe as settling down is what I describe as surrendering. When we settle down we surrender to someone or something. Who/what do you surrender to?

Originally Posted by Ceridwen018

No one is saying we only need ourselves to be happy, on account of because there are no hermits here. (If you take offense to my assumption, I'm sorry, but I just can't consider you to be a true hermit if you have a computer ) I readily admit that I would be very unhappy without books, chocolate, TV, books, and chocolate. These are all external things, but guess what? So is god. The only difference between a book in god, is that you're hobby bosses you around, wehereas I can burn mine if I don't like it. (partially j/k)

I have not implied that it is necessarily bad to seek happiness through external things. God is both internal and external. When I referred to people being happy in themselves, I meant for people to be happy without the aid of anything else, i.e.: books, chocolate, tv... even God. If we can be our own self-satisfied God-like beings, then how come we are not? And how come we suffer ignorance? You mentioning your capacity to burn a book added to your decision to reject God shows how you yourself seek to be in the position of control. If you are in control, then you should have all things at your disposal. You should not be ignorant of a single thing. You should also be eternally free from birth and death. So where is your control?

The difference between my being bossed around and your capacity to burn (lol) is that you are seeking to be in control of your happiness, while I am happy surrendering my false sense of control. I could burn a book or I could not. The act in itself is meaningless to what constitutes my level of comfort. By seeking to be the enjoyed, I become enjoyer. And I never suffer from bad decision making.

[Paraprakrti]

My conclusion to this thread:

Happiness does not exist devoid of God because whatever happiness it is that we experience is given by God. Both the facility to feel happy and the object that that happiness focuses on are given by God.

Furthermore, in anticipation to the argument, "God also then gives us suffering", my reply is that you either seek happiness without seeking God and thus have this intermittent sense of happiness as a natural defense reaction to the repeatedly occuring distress... or you seek happiness by seeking God and thus you are restored to your constitutional position of eternal happiness. You have the ability to be free of suffering. If you choose not to do anything about it, that is out of your own ignorance.

[Sunstone]

Hmmm. Given everything that's gone before in this thread, I think the most straightforward position is that some people feel happy with God and some people feel happy without God. Furthermore, I cannot see the usefulness in attempting to convince everyone to hold the same opinion about whether they are happier with or without God.

[Hope]

I personally cannot fathom being truly happy without God. And I have immense admiration for those who can be happy without Him. But, as some have pointed out, too much of our happiness is based on external things, and external circumstances. For me, believing in God does not give me mere happiness--it gives me something even deeper, which is joy, and there is a difference between happiness and joy. Happiness only scratches the surface--joy is something that resides in one's spirit, no matter what the external circumstances are. If I am imprisoned for a crime I did not commit--should I be happy about that? Of course not--how silly. However, even though I may not be happy about it, I can still have joy deep inside me--joy from a hope within me. And in my case, that joy would come from God. I have been through some pretty tough stuff in my life, but I have found, strangely, that it's my most painful times that I feel closest to God, and have this joy--a joy that totally defies what I am going through. I think, therefore, we should really examine what we mean by 'happiness.'

[Feathers in Hair]

Beautiful posts, everyone! (And I know, given our various histories, some of us may reach a conclusion about a topic, and it is wonderful that we live in a society where we can all reach our own conclusions!)

Me, I'm stealing Hope's avatar! Like chocolate, having known Aragorn (or any of the hobbits), can one truly be happy without them? *tries to sneak off without Hope noticing*