Process Theology of the Cross (Jesus Christ, Earth, salvation, tradition)

[angellous_evangellous]

Process theology is a theory that God made mistakes and learned in the story of God in the Hebrew bible and New Testament. God created humans imperfect - with the ability to sin - and introduced them in an environment that made sin and evil on earth possible.

Now we have a long history of human and divine evil.

Humans have the right to be angry with God because God refuses or is unable to stop the evil that plauges our world. In this we judge God for being Divine, "You refuse to stop the evil that you created!"

God has the right to be angry with humans, "You're still responsible for your actions!"

In Christianity, God has become incarnate in Jesus Christ. He pronounces himself guilty as charged and dies as a human being for the sins of all humanity.

[Victor]

In order for what to happen?

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Victor

In order for what to happen?

Perhaps a better way to explain it is this:

From a human perspective, all human anger directed toward God is justified. God has the power to save humanity from all evil and cannot and does not irradicate it.

The cross in Christian theology is useful place to focus this anger: God submitted himself to death as a human/divine Being.

I am not arguing this as exclusive of the Christian message that Christ died and resurrected to affect forgiveness and grace for human sins: the cross event is powerful enough to recoincile humanity to God and God to humanity.

[Truth101]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Process theology is a theory that God made mistakes and learned in the story of God in the Hebrew bible and New Testament. God created humans imperfect - with the ability to sin - and introduced them in an environment that made sin and evil on earth possible.

Now we have a long history of human and divine evil.

Humans have the right to be angry with God because God refuses or is unable to stop the evil that plauges our world. In this we judge God for being Divine, "You refuse to stop the evil that you created!"

God has the right to be angry with humans, "You're still responsible for your actions!"

In Christianity, God has become incarnate in Jesus Christ. He pronounces himself guilty as charged and dies as a human being for the sins of all humanity.

So if Christ died justifiably on the cross then His death did no justice. This is not scriptural whatsoever. Jesus KNEW NO SIN and therefore was worthy to pay the debt of MANS SIN NOT Gods. In the old testament a worthy sacrifice was to be without spot or blemish, not a mark on it, perfect. If Christ justifiably died on the cross for the sins of God and man than He was not worthy to be sacrifices for anyopnes sins. The bible says He who knew NO sin took our sins, not our sins and Gods. Nowhere in the bible is there any reference to this. This theory has less fact than the theory of evolution.
In addition God does not say we are responsible for our sins. He says we are accountable which is not the same thing at all. to be responsible leaves us on our own to find find our own salvation seperate from God. To be accountable is to give a word or explanation for what we have done. God giving us His son to pay the debt was taking the responsability from us and we are left to give an account. We will give an account not for our sins, but for what we have done concerning our knowledge of what God has done for us. What did you do with the life that God has given you through His Son?

God bless, Dave

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Process theology is a theory that God made mistakes and learned in the story of God in the Hebrew bible and New Testament. God created humans imperfect - with the ability to sin - and introduced them in an environment that made sin and evil on earth possible.

Now we have a long history of human and divine evil.

Humans have the right to be angry with God because God refuses or is unable to stop the evil that plauges our world. In this we judge God for being Divine, "You refuse to stop the evil that you created!"

God has the right to be angry with humans, "You're still responsible for your actions!"

In Christianity, God has become incarnate in Jesus Christ. He pronounces himself guilty as charged and dies as a human being for the sins of all humanity.

Well this is certainly completely at odds with Orthodox theology and I personally can see no benefit in it whatsoever. Are you suggesting that this process theology is a good thing or are you just wanting a discussion on whether or not it is? The purpose of your OP is unclear. From my point of view, the whole idea sounds beyond the pale. To claim that God is imperfect and guilty of our sin seems to completely fly in the face of Scripture and the rest of Holy Tradition.

James

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by JamesThePersian

Well this is certainly completely at odds with Orthodox theology and I personally can see no benefit in it whatsoever. Are you suggesting that this process theology is a good thing or are you just wanting a discussion on whether or not it is? The purpose of your OP is unclear. From my point of view, the whole idea sounds beyond the pale. To claim that God is imperfect and guilty of our sin seems to completely fly in the face of Scripture and the rest of Holy Tradition.

James

I don't think that I said that God was guilty of our sin, but explicitly said the opposite.

Originally Posted by A_E

God has the right to be angry with humans, "You're still responsible for your actions!"

I merely wanted to discuss the usefulness of the Incarnation and cross event in focusing human anger at the divine. Obviously, theolgians (western at least) have used the cross as a tool to focus divine anger (= judgment and wrath) at humans.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Truth101

So if Christ died justifiably on the cross then His death did no justice. This is not scriptural whatsoever. Jesus KNEW NO SIN and therefore was worthy to pay the debt of MANS SIN NOT Gods. In the old testament a worthy sacrifice was to be without spot or blemish, not a mark on it, perfect. If Christ justifiably died on the cross for the sins of God and man than He was not worthy to be sacrifices for anyopnes sins. The bible says He who knew NO sin took our sins, not our sins and Gods. Nowhere in the bible is there any reference to this. This theory has less fact than the theory of evolution.

No, I completely accept the message that Christ gave himself for humanity - completely innocent - the spotless lamb of God. The awesome power of his free gift is enough for all sin.

If we can accept the biblical understanding of the perfect righteousness of God, then we must believe that whatever God does is righteous and good, even if it is (1) the command to the Israelites to commit genocide (2) the destruction of the world via the flood and (3) the creation and sustaining of evil.

If these things are righteous and good, then Christ can still be God and perfect in everyway, and also bear in Himself all of our just anger.

In addition God does not say we are responsible for our sins. He says we are accountable which is not the same thing at all. to be responsible leaves us on our own to find find our own salvation seperate from God. To be accountable is to give a word or explanation for what we have done. God giving us His son to pay the debt was taking the responsability from us and we are left to give an account. We will give an account not for our sins, but for what we have done concerning our knowledge of what God has done for us. What did you do with the life that God has given you through His Son?

God bless, Dave

I see no quanititative difference between "responsible" and "accountable" here. If we give account for something, we are responsible for the accouting.