Process Theology of the Cross (Jesus Christ, Earth, salvation, tradition)

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by JamesThePersian

He is correcting a mistake, but the mistake is ours, not His. He created us with free will. Do you think that was a mistake? I sincerely hope not. Both our sinfulness and our mortality stem from a misuse of free will and do so as a consequence rather than a punishment. As for why God allowed humans to die after the fall, there's a common strand in Patristic theology that he did so so that our state of sin should not be eternal. Were we both sinful and immortal then we would be in the same position as the demons. Death is not necessarily an evil, it can also be a mercy.

James

It is regrettable and comes with a heavy cost.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

It is regrettable and comes with a heavy cost.

I feel that the cost of us being created without free will would be much greater. I don't find it regrettable in the slightest that humanity isn't just a bunch of automatons.

James

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by JamesThePersian

I feel that the cost of us being created without free will would be much greater. I don't find it regrettable in the slightest that humanity isn't just a bunch of automatons.

James

We could have freewill without evil. God could have made a world where we choose only good from good.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

We could have freewill without evil. God could have made a world where we choose only good from good.

I simply don't believe that's possible. How could got prevent us from choosing evil without curtailing our free will? If I am free to choose whatever I like then even if nobody has ever previously done an evil act it doesn't stop me from imagining one and choosing to follow through with it.

James

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by JamesThePersian

I simply don't believe that's possible. How could got prevent us from choosing evil without curtailing our free will? If I am free to choose whatever I like then even if nobody has ever previously done an evil act it doesn't stop me from imagining one and choosing to follow through with it.

James

Simple: by not allowing evil choices as possibilities and only good choices.

The Garden of Eden myth provides an excellent model for this kind of Eutopia:

The Lord places Adam and Eve in the Garden, and gives them the freedom to be completely human without the possibility of sin. They can choose where and what to farm, create art and music, and have sex. Evil choices are not a possibility: God creates Adam and Eve without the ability to exploit one another, be selfish, or disobedient to God. God does not create any animal or person with the ability for guile or deceit.

It's entirely possible.

[sojourner]

But...since God is good then it follows that evil is what is not of God.

Since God is also love, and since love does not force itself, we must, by definition, have the choice to either participate in love, or to not participate in love.

Turning from love -- from God -- is, by definition, evil. Turning toward God is, by definition, to choose to participate in love...and in good.

The choice must lie with us in whether to participate in God, or not.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by sojourner

But...since God is good then it follows that evil is what is not of God.

Since God is also love, and since love does not force itself, we must, by definition, have the choice to either participate in love, or to not participate in love.

Turning from love -- from God -- is, by definition, evil. Turning toward God is, by definition, to choose to participate in love...and in good.

The choice must lie with us in whether to participate in God, or not.

God is responsible for giving us the ability to choose this, and that is evil. God has the power to remove the choice to rebel - and indeed that is what Christian eschatology teaches: in heaven we will not be able to sin and die, but it is at least possible that we will have freewill.

It will be a different kind of freewill that we should have had in the beginning: the freewill to choose good choices from only good possibilities.