If you pray for me, keep it to yourself! (choice, hell)

[Jayhawker Soule]

From ScientificAmerican.com

No Prayer Prescription
Send good vibrations, but keep it to yourself
By Christine Soares

Seeking to assess the effect of third-party prayer on patient outcomes, investigators found no evidence for divine intervention. They did, however, detect a possible proof for the power of negative thinking.

The three-year Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP), published in the April 4 American Heart Journal, was the largest-ever attempt to apply scientific methods to measure the influence of prayer on the well-being of another. It examined 1,800 patients undergoing heart-bypass surgery. On the eve of the operations, church groups began two weeks of praying for one set of patients. Each recipient had a praying contingent of about 70, none of whom knew the patient personally. The study found no differences in survival or complication rates compared with those who did not receive prayers. The only statistically significant blip appeared in a subgroup of patients who were prayed for and knew it. They experienced a higher rate of postsurgical heart arrhythmias (59 versus 52 percent of unaware subjects).

[michel]

I can't say I am surprised; I think I would have been more surprised had the result shown the power of prayer had an effect.

I believe that our lives are 'pre destined to a certain point, and that death will occur when death is supposed to occur............


I don't believe in 'divine intervention' as a result of praying; the way our lives are lived are our choice (O.K, I know you don't believe in free will). For 'divine intervention' to change circumstances would be a negation of the point of us living our Eathly lives.

[cardero]

Originally Posted by michel

I can't say I am surprised; I think I would have been more surprised had the result shown the power of prayer had an effect.

I believe that our lives are 'pre destined to a certain point, and that death will occur when death is supposed to occur............


I don't believe in 'divine intervention' as a result of praying; the way our lives are lived are our choice (O.K, I know you don't believe in free will). For 'divine intervention' to change circumstances would be a negation of the point of us living our Eathly lives.

"This is when people seem to lose their faith in ME. And this is why I do not buy into faith. I received the prayer and have sent it to the proper channels. But if it is within the will of the BEing that these prayers go unfulfilled, it is only because it is not within the PURPOSE for this BEing to receive the effects of that particular prayer. It is not MY will that must BE done but the will and the PURPOSE of the individual BEing who has chosen a PURPOSE before incarnating into a physical existence that must BE done."

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: The Purpose Of Prayer
Pg: 381

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by michel

I believe that our lives are 'pre destined to a certain point, ....

... the way our lives are lived are our choice ...

Well, that was clear ...

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule

The study found no differences in survival or complication rates compared with those who did not receive prayers. The only statistically significant blip appeared in a subgroup of patients who were prayed for and knew it. They experienced a higher rate of postsurgical heart arrhythmias (59 versus 52 percent of unaware subjects).

Once again, science tries to prove something that's unproveable and put it forth as fact. Since each individual is uniquely different, how can they possibly know whether the people who were prayed for (and didn't know it) didn't actually do better than they would have without prayer. There's no way to know unless you could go back and do it all over again with the same people and the same situation and compare the results. To compare them against a totally different group of people just doesn't make for an accurate study.

I used to work for a research facility, writing grants, and they would never have considered this a legitimate study. You can't control the variables.

Nice try though.

[Sunstone]

I figure if prayer has any medical benefits then they accrue to the person doing the praying, not to the person prayed for.

I don't mind my mentioning that even as a non-theist I strangely feel utterly compelled each morning when logging on to fervently pray Feathers has not torn up the Forum while I slept. That daily compulsion is quite possibly the closest I've ever come in my life to a religious routine. I think it's surely a panic based religion though.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

each morning when logging on to fervently pray Feathers has not torn up the Forum while I slept. That daily compulsion is quite possibly the closest I've ever come in my life to a religious routine. I think it's surely a panic based religion though.

LOL...well since Feathers is gone for a bit to visit family, you can rest easy.

[Mister_T]

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