Universal Salvation? (Jesus Christ, ritual, moral, testimonies, punishment)

[Heneni]

Hello Wandered off!

Im not sure i understand your question? But ill give it a go. Seperation from god is our punishment, not entirely just, we deserved worse! Not being able to return to god our torment. Hence if you had faith in jesus to save you, he did, and this is therefore a place of training in order to go back to god. (if you are a christian) We are ALL here because we rebelled against god, god made a way for us to be redeemed. Jesus saved us on the cross and we need to learn how to be children of god so that when we go back we wont do the same thing again. Being seperated from god is my punishment and i have to make hay with it. My seperation from god is everyday reminding me that i need to fix the mistakes of the past, and use the opportunity to return back to god.

I would not have been able though to return into the presence of god if i had sin on me, so jesus had to wipe my sins away, but repentance for those sins is required otherwise there would be no change in the character that caused me to sin. This earth is a refining fire, purifying me daily to become pure as gold so that when i enter into my gods presence i wont be consumed! For the wicked it is not a refining fire but a fire that destroys. Jesus said he came to start a fire, that fire would purify us and would have a different effect on the wicked.

At the end of the ages the good trees are seperated from the bad trees, right now both trees are on this earth together. The good trees go home, the bad trees are thrown into the fire...this earth being the fire. The trees are uprooted, therefore the trees that are left wont be able to use the earth to survive, being uprooted it is unable to get its sustanance from it, and as we all know this earth does not seem like a likely place to have a good time in in the future for two reasons...god will have removed any traces of him, and two, satan will have free reign here ..oh and three..the earth wont be a nice planet to be on.

Heneni

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by Heneni

Im not sure i understand your question?

Hi Heneni. You asked whether "being separated from god here on earth [is] punishment." I was thinking that, since one has to take god's very existence on faith, that would also mean we'd have to take it on faith that being on earth is punishment (and that it's separation from god, for that matter).

Further, it seems a bit odd that we can't even be certain we're being punished. I'm being punished, but I don't know it, and apparently it's for rebelling against a god I wasn't certain of, and how would I know I was even rebelling? There is some kind of justice missing from that equation.

[crystalonyx]

Originally Posted by Heneni

Hello Wandered off!

Im not sure i understand your question? But ill give it a go. Seperation from god is our punishment, not entirely just, we deserved worse! Not being able to return to god our torment. Hence if you had faith in jesus to save you, he did, and this is therefore a place of training in order to go back to god. (if you are a christian) We are ALL here because we rebelled against god, god made a way for us to be redeemed. Jesus saved us on the cross and we need to learn how to be children of god so that when we go back we wont do the same thing again. Being seperated from god is my punishment and i have to make hay with it. My seperation from god is everyday reminding me that i need to fix the mistakes of the past, and use the opportunity to return back to god.

I would not have been able though to return into the presence of god if i had sin on me, so jesus had to wipe my sins away, but repentance for those sins is required otherwise there would be no change in the character that caused me to sin. This earth is a refining fire, purifying me daily to become pure as gold so that when i enter into my gods presence i wont be consumed! For the wicked it is not a refining fire but a fire that destroys. Jesus said he came to start a fire, that fire would purify us and would have a different effect on the wicked.

At the end of the ages the good trees are seperated from the bad trees, right now both trees are on this earth together. The good trees go home, the bad trees are thrown into the fire...this earth being the fire. The trees are uprooted, therefore the trees that are left wont be able to use the earth to survive, being uprooted it is unable to get its sustanance from it, and as we all know this earth does not seem like a likely place to have a good time in in the future for two reasons...god will have removed any traces of him, and two, satan will have free reign here ..oh and three..the earth wont be a nice planet to be on.

Heneni

You need to prove the biblical Jesus actually existed, before making bold assumptions based upon that assertion.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by crystalonyx

You need to prove the biblical Jesus actually existed, before making bold assumptions based upon that assertion.

In a Religious Debate thread.... with an OP that clearly shows that this thread should be framed within the context of Scripture:

Originally Posted by OP

Something I have been thinking about for a long time is Apocatastasis - that is, universal salvation. Originally posited over a thousand years ago by Origen, a greek early church scholar, and later carried on by many thinkers from Saint Gregory of Nyssa to Julian of Norwich, it teaches that all moral agents will be ultimately saved - though evil individuals will be punished for an undefined length of time - even the sourest, most evil devil will return to God.

This teaching was declared anathema by the Synod of Constantinople in 543. My question is, what do other posters here think about this teaching? Do you think it should be more readily accepted by modern Christians or do you believe there is a better justification for eternal punishment?

.... someone has to PROVE Jesus existed?

I'm getting so tired of this.

[logician]

Unless the thread is in the "same-faith" forum, these are equal opportunity threads, not closed ones, I suggest threads such as these be put in the same-faith debates if you don't want other opinions to be brought in.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

Hi Heneni. You asked whether "being separated from god here on earth [is] punishment." I was thinking that, since one has to take god's very existence on faith, that would also mean we'd have to take it on faith that being on earth is punishment (and that it's separation from god, for that matter).

Further, it seems a bit odd that we can't even be certain we're being punished. I'm being punished, but I don't know it, and apparently it's for rebelling against a god I wasn't certain of, and how would I know I was even rebelling? There is some kind of justice missing from that equation.

Hi, Wandered Off. I don't believe that being separated from God here on Earth is a punishment. To me, it's a privilege, and I believe it's something we all chose to experience. Now it we were to be eternally separated from God, that would be a different matter. I believe that God has a purpose for us here on Earth and did not put us here to punish us, but so that we could return to Him having learned things we could not possibly have learned in His presence.

[Somkid]

I thought Buddhism was the only belief system that had a universal "salvation" concept? If any one is "lost" or damned to hell than there can be no universal salvation.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Somkid

I thought Buddhism was the only belief system that had a universal "salvation" concept? If any one is "lost" or damned to hell than there can be no universal salvation.

Mormonism doesn't teach universal salvation, but pretty darned close. The only way I can see salvation being 100% universal (that's redundant, isn't it? ) would be for God to force everyone to want to spend eternity with Him. I personally don't know why someone wouldn't want to, but I don't believe God will force anyone. Aside from those who, when all is said and done (and I am not just talking about the 70 or 80 years of mortality we can probably expect to experience), hate God enough that they would prefer to live out eternity as far from Him as possible, we're all going to make it.

[Somkid]

I am happy and comfortable with the idea of 60, 70, 80 or 100 years here the idea of death being permanent and not having to live anymore is quite satisfying to me.