Jesus vs. Buddha (ritual, crucifixion, mystic, Buddhism, mission)

[bill]

This thread is about idol worship. I thought there was a prescription on idol worship in the Old Testamate. Most churches I have visited contain a statue of Jesus nailed to the Cross ( in Catholic churches in Europe the representation was as it most ostentatious). Buddha is not generally considered a god but a man, although Buddhism is considered a religion. In nearly every Buddhist shrine I have seen there was a statue of Buddha ( the more well known monestaries were generally blessed with the biggest or most outlandish statues - the emerald buddha in Bangkok being an exception). I would contrast this to a mosque. Those that I have visited were aesthetically pleasing (a good place to relax) but yet somehow seemed empty.

My questions are: does the fact of Jesus being a "man" permit the representation of the crucifixion? Is there any logical difference to explain the presence of Buddha statues in shrines? Does the presence of idols enable the faith to express the philosophy behind it? Why did I feel an emptiness or quiet in Islamic mosques?

[MysticSang'ha]

I'm sorry, I am very confused by the intent of your thread. You mentioned "Jesus vs. Buddha" and in your post, it seemed as if you were insinuating idolatry luring a practitioner away from spiritual truth. You also included your feelings about mosques you have visited and how they were pleasing to you aesthetically (insinuating they are closer to the "truth" by their design?)




Are you wanting this to be "Jesus vs. Buddha"? Or mosque-design vs. idolatry (as you claim is represented in Christianity and Buddhism)?




Clarify?






Peace,
Mystic

[bill]

Originally Posted by MysticSang'ha

I'm sorry, I am very confused by the intent of your thread. You mentioned "Jesus vs. Buddha" and in your post, it seemed as if you were insinuating idolatry luring a practitioner away from spiritual truth. You also included your feelings about mosques you have visited and how they were pleasing to you aesthetically (insinuating they are closer to the "truth" by their design?)




Are you wanting this to be "Jesus vs. Buddha"? Or mosque-design vs. idolatry (as you claim is represented in Christianity and Buddhism)?




Clarify?






Peace,
Mystic

Does the presence of the idol make the philosophy more accessible or human? The mosque comparison is there for two reasons a) absence of idol b) How that impacted on my experience of the faith (to the little extent I have explored Islam (based on visiting mosques), I experienced a sense of aesthetic quiet). This is not intended to be uniquely as a Jesus v. Buddha debate (although that is included as an interesting comparison).

[Sunstone]

Buddhism has successfully resisted deifying the Buddha for the 2,500 years of its existence. The statues you see are not meant to be worshipped. This is because one of the core messages of Buddhism is that the Buddha was a man who achieved enlightenment, and thus proved that humans can achieve enlightenment. To make a god out of him would negate this core message. That is, to make a god out of the Buddha would result in the ho hum message that gods can become enlightened.

[bill]

Originally Posted by MysticSang'ha

I'm sorry, I am very confused by the intent of your thread. You mentioned "Jesus vs. Buddha" and in your post, it seemed as if you were insinuating idolatry luring a practitioner away from spiritual truth. You also included your feelings about mosques you have visited and how they were pleasing to you aesthetically (insinuating they are closer to the "truth" by their design?)




Are you wanting this to be "Jesus vs. Buddha"? Or mosque-design vs. idolatry (as you claim is represented in Christianity and Buddhism)?




Clarify?






Peace,
Mystic

I take your point about the lack of clarity in the post title.So I will try to change it.

[bill]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Buddhism has successfully resisted deifying the Buddha for the 2,500 years of its existence. The statues you see are not meant to be worshipped. This is because one of the core messages of Buddhism is that the Buddha was a man who achieved enlightenment, and thus proved that humans can achieve enlightenment. To make a god out of him would negate this core message. That is, to make a god out of the Buddha would result in the ho hum message that gods can become enlightened.

I know the Buddha image is not meant to be worshipped. But I have witnessed Buddhists (and this is a major differentiation in "Vehicles" in Buddhism) lay garlands at the feet of the statue in a weekly ritual, same as confession. Isn't this tokenism? Taxi drivers in Bangkok play Russian roulet every time they attempt to negotiate those roadways (no giveway rule) with an image of Buddha or offrings on the dashboard as protection.

[ΩRôghênΩ]

because religious places uplift us subconcioussly. you may hve only this experience in the mosque because your spiritual personality is set to that setting of a mosque

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by bill

I know the Buddha image is not meant to be worshipped. But I have witnessed Buddhists (and this is a major differentiation in "Vehicles" in Buddhism) lay garlands at the feet of the statue in a weekly ritual, same as confession. Isn't this tokenism? Taxi drivers in Bangkok play Russian roulet every time they attempt to negotiate those roadways (no giveway rule) with an image of Buddha or offrings on the dashboard as protection.

I don't doubt that some people, especially in Theravada Buddhism, worship the Buddha. I was merely referring to the overall tendency of Buddhists to resist deifying him.

[MysticSang'ha]

There have been plenty of stories such as the Zen monk who was visited by a Christian missionary who questioned the practitioners laying offerings at the Buddha's feet as well as bowing down to the Buddha. The Zen monk then abruptly took the Buddha statue and threw it down where it crashed everywhere. The practitioners never stopped their prostrations and their offerings.........they continued their acts in the empty space.



The reasons we do our prostrations and our offerings are not because of any type of substantiation or idol-worship. Our prostrations and our offerings are like our meditations.........they are practices for how we should approach our world and how we should approach others. We should continue our humility, bowing to the buddha-nature of others, offer whatever we have to help others' needs, and finally being mindful in all situations.




Peace,
Mystic

[bill]

Originally Posted by ~Lord Roghen~

because religious places uplift us subconcioussly. you may hve only this experience in the mosque because your spiritual personality is set to that setting of a mosque

I didn't build the mosque so I do not view it as an extension of my subconscious. I get the same feeling when I visit a disused factory or warehouse. It is a feeling of history like visiting a monument. Completely different from being in a religious context with an idol.