Religion and Abortion (birth control, contradiction, beliefs, minority, choice)

[anders]

It is sufficiently clear from the Bible/TaNaK that a fetus is not a living human being until it has taken its first breath. So, abortion is not contrary to the Christian or Jewish faiths. Moreover, Exodus describes a woman's loss of a fetus after bodily harm as the loss of a possession of her husband. Abortion is not only allowed, but PRESCRIBED if the woman is pregnant by a man other than her husband and if her husband is jealous. I interpret this rule (Numbers ch. 5) as that the husband very generously may abstain from the abortion-cum-sterilisation if he is not jealous.

Independently from this, my personal view is that the decision must be the woman's own decision, which she should consider discussing with the father-possibly-to-be if she thinks that the man is a responsible person.

Anders

[classz123]

It also says that only those who are sinless shall cast the first stone

[painted wolf]

While I would never personally have an Abortion, I would also never tell another person what to do with thier body. I certanly find it better than infanticide, at least its over early. The 'problem' is abortion has always been with us and always will be, its not a right that once taken away magically makes people stop.
Native Peoples around the world had contraceptives and abortitiives in their herbology... sometimes a woman and her people simply couldn't care for the child and it was more humane than letting it suffer. Women who bore ill or severly deformed children were known to kill them or just leave them in the wild to die... It was a traumatic event and the woman would mourn in whatever way her people did so.
When I was an Archeology student I learned that one of the most prized diggs was an old outhouse... aparently you often found the remains of infants that had been dropped in to thier deaths.... I for one don't want to go back to the 'good old days'.

wa:-do

[Runt]

It is sufficiently clear from the Bible/TaNaK that a fetus is not a living human being until it has taken its first breath.

If it is not alive, then why does its heart beat? Why does it kick its feet and suck its fingers and toes? Why does it hiccup? Why does its heartrate increase when it is startled inside the womb? Why does it DIE if its mother aborts it if it is not a living human being until it is born?

[anders]

Me: "It is sufficiently clear from the Bible/TaNaK that a fetus is not a living human being until it has taken its first breath."

Runt: "f it is not alive, then why does its heart beat?..."

Well, my reflections were meant primarily for those who think that they can use the Bible to oppose abortions. They obviously have no knowledge of the passages to which I refer, especially Numbers 5.

Anders

[Runt]

Anders--

Sorry. My bad :P

[Bendad]

Yes, most Christian denominations are in principle opposed to abortion-on-demand with some opposing it more vehemently than others. But I'm not aware of any specific mention of abortion in the Bible unless one applies the commandment Thou Shalt Not Kill to the unborn. It probably wasn't a well-known practice among the Jewish peoples of either the old testament or during the life of Jesus. Yet, in the Didache, which historians and archeologists generally agree were writings of the apostles or their earliest followers, the practice of abortion which was later observed among the Roman community was strongly condemned as sinful.

It is difficult for politicians in today's secular communities to openly lobby for abortion to be outlawed on the basis of their own personal religious beliefs. Perhaps the best way for it to be handled is for governments to provide greater support options to pregnant women and single mothers. The authorities need to make adoption more accessible to couples who can't parent their own baby and provide provide mediators who could confidentially act as go-betweens for such couples and any pregnant women who might want to consider adopting out as an alternative to abortion.

Also, our aging population and declining birth rate in western nations means that more alternatives to abortion should be made available by governments before our societies reach such an imbalance demographically that they will not longer be able to support themselves.

[anders]

Bendad,

In a previous post I wrote "Abortion is not only allowed, but PRESCRIBED if the woman is pregnant by a man other than her husband and if her husband is jealous." In Numbers ch. 5, the husband and the priest in such a case are to see to that the woman not only has an abortion, but is sterilised for life (v. 27, KJV): "... and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot ..." Comparing the Hebrew text and several translations, there is no doubt that the first part means a miscarriage or abortion, and that the second part (some use "wilt") means that she will be unable to have any more children.

See also my April 02 post.

[civilcynic]

I am pro-choice and I have known women who have had abortions. To be sure there a few women who do use abortion as a method of birth control ( none that i have known) but I suggest that most women who make that decision, do so after agonizing over it. In most cases, it is not an easy decision to make and is not made simply for convenience.

So often I hear statements from the Pro-life contigency that "if the woman didn't to want to become pregnant, she should have either used birth control or abstained from sex....now that she's pregnant, she should take responsibility"........ This way of thinking traps women in a no-win situation because:

1. With the exception of condoms,abstinence and surgical intervention, all forms of effective birth control are abortifacients (includes pills, IUD, morning after pill, implants, patches, etc)...that is they work after a the egg is fertilized which is when pregnancy begins.

2. Abstinence may be well-suited to discourage promiscuity among unmarried individuals but what about happily married individuals? Should they forego sex once they decide not ot have anymore children?
According to the Christian religion, sex is very important in marriage and a woman should submit to her husband.....What is a woman to do? does she stop having sex with her husband(against most religions), use methods that will ensure the abortion of any beginning pregnancy (frowned upon by many Christian denominations), use condoms (frowned upon by some religions), try to use the rhythm method (which frequently results in pregnancy)?

If all religious and societal mores expect that men and women should maintain a healthy sexual relationship during marriage....how does a woman avoid becoming pregnant year after year after year....or is that what she is supposed to do? How does she remain true to her religious beliefs and yet not become another 'barefoot & pregnant' statistic?

Women should have the right to determine what will happen to their bodies and their future. Late term abortions are the ones most frequently used by anti-abortionists to persuade people to be pro-life. The fact is that late-term abortions are not common and present a medical risk to perform. I do believe that late-term abortions need to be held to higher standards and should never be done without good cause but that 'cause' needs to be between a woman and her doctor.

[Mr Spinkles]

Alaric-

Are you implying that if another human being were drowning in a nearby lake, I would have the "full right" to decide whether or not to help him/her, since that person's life depends on me being "bothered" in the rescue attempt?

I think people "being bothered" to preserve the lives of others can be required- for example, the Good Samaritan laws.

Also, you say that abortion only becomes murder when the baby can live outside the womb by itself. What if in the future, better medical practices make it possible for fetuses to survive outside the womb at an earlier stage in pregnancy? Does that mean that all those abortions that previously took place at that stage could now be considered murder?

I'm an atheist, and I'm Pro Life. This doesn't mean the mother doesn't have a choice- give the child up for adoption! Contrary to popular belief, our nation's orphanages are far from overcrowded, and parents waiting to adopt often have to wait years. It's sad to think how far people go to protect whales, condors, chickens waiting to be turned into McNuggets....yet when it comes to our own young, we use the must base and inhumane medical procedures to kill them off as late as the third trimester, all because "we're really not ready for this baby right now".

The ancient Romans used to give birth to unwanted babies and throw them in the city garbage heap to die. Are abortions, especially late term ones, any less savage? Sorry, it's just my opinion.