The Bible doesn't make sense. Clue me in. (Jesus, ritual)

[Faint]

I have questions (and I'm being serious in case you have your doubts):

1) Why is God so concerned about whether or not we love him? If he is perfect and whole and without desire, why would he want the love of a human? Do you think it's love he wants or unquestioned respect. I think it would be the latter because...
2) Why would God send anyone to hell if he really loved them as he claims? If someone you love breaks your heart, you would be pretty damn cold to want that person to be tortured for eternity. Personally, I want the people I love to be happy whether or not they love me.
3) We run into a lot of problems with translating the Bible, since we have so many languages because (according to scripture) God saw need to mix up the languages in that whole Babel incident. To me, this seems like a strategic mistake on the part of God. If he wanted us to heed him, he should have made his message clearer--maybe by releasing several thousand editions, one for every language. Or, why didn't God use some magic to etch his rules on the psyche of every newborn so there would be no room for interpretational error?
4) Why would God work in "mysterious ways"? If you want people to respect you and do what you say, wouldn't you be more direct with them about who's in charge? Why all the sneaking around?
5) If you have the ability to withhold something from God (love in this case) doesn't that give you a certain power over him? And, doesn't that mean he is not all-powerful after all?

[Squirt]

Originally Posted by Faint

I have questions (and I'm being serious in case you have your doubts):

1) Why is God so concerned about whether or not we love him? If he is perfect and whole and without desire, why would he want the love of a human? Do you think it's love he wants or unquestioned respect. I think it would be the latter because...

I think God is deserving of our love and that He is ultimately responsible for every good thing we have. I don't see God as "needy" but as requiring from us what is rightfully His -- our gratitude and respect.

2) Why would God send anyone to hell if he really loved them as he claims? If someone you love breaks your heart, you would be pretty damn cold to want that person to be tortured for eternity. Personally, I want the people I love to be happy whether or not they love me.

I don't think He does. I believe in Hell, but I think those who end up there are the ones who choose to resist His love and actually want to be as far removed from Him as possible.

3) We run into a lot of problems with translating the Bible, since we have so many languages because (according to scripture) God saw need to mix up the languages in that whole Babel incident. To me, this seems like a strategic mistake on the part of God. If he wanted us to heed him, he should have made his message clearer--maybe by releasing several thousand editions, one for every language.

I don't think we need any more translations of the Bible. He has giving us living prophets instead.

Or, why didn't God use some magic to etch his rules on the psyche of every newborn so there would be no room for interpretational error?

We're human beings, not computers -- that's why. He wants us to figure it out for ourselves instead of just pulling up the program.

4) Why would God work in "mysterious ways"? If you want people to respect you and do what you say, wouldn't you be more direct with them about who's in charge? Why all the sneaking around?

I think we insist on making Him a whole lot more mysterious and complicated than He ever intended to be. He wants us to understand Him. We're the problem; He isn't.

5) If you have the ability to withhold something from God (love in this case) doesn't that give you a certain power over him? And, doesn't that mean he is not all-powerful after all?

No, I don't think that's what it means at all. It was God who gave us this power. It's called free agency. We wouldn't have it at all if He hadn't wanted us to.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Faint

1) Why is God so concerned about whether or not we love him? If he is perfect and whole and without desire, why would he want the love of a human? Do you think it's love he wants or unquestioned respect. I think it would be the latter because...

If it is true, as some people believe, that G-d has no desire (or emotions for that matter) why would He WANT anything of us, including love.
My answer to that is, is it really for Him, or is it ultimately for us, that we may focus our mind, heart, and soul on a higher level of being, to raise ourselves up.

2) Why would God send anyone to hell if he really loved them as he claims? If someone you love breaks your heart, you would be pretty damn cold to want that person to be tortured for eternity. Personally, I want the people I love to be happy whether or not they love me.

not really an issue for me, i don't believe that hell exists.

3) We run into a lot of problems with translating the Bible, since we have so many languages because (according to scripture) God saw need to mix up the languages in that whole Babel incident. To me, this seems like a strategic mistake on the part of God. If he wanted us to heed him, he should have made his message clearer--maybe by releasing several thousand editions, one for every language. Or, why didn't God use some magic to etch his rules on the psyche of every newborn so there would be no room for interpretational error?

having one language can also be used for evil as well, that the wrong things would be taught among men that deviate from scripture. That was what happened at Babel essentially.
as far as programming into our brain ahead of time, if that were done there would be no spiritual growth for us which is one of the reasons we are here.

4) Why would God work in "mysterious ways"? If you want people to respect you and do what you say, wouldn't you be more direct with them about who's in charge? Why all the sneaking around?

i'll use a quote from Futurama when Bender actually met G-d:
"do too much and people become dependent on you, do too little and people lose faith."

5) If you have the ability to withhold something from God (love in this case) doesn't that give you a certain power over him? And, doesn't that mean he is not all-powerful after all?

if G-d really didn't want you to do something events would transpire to effect that.

[Ronald]

To get to "Hell", one is not sent to hell, you volunteer to go. God throws a lifeline even though He knows(all knowing) you will not take hold! God is Love. He created man to fellowship with Him, this is what He wants, Fellowship. Freewill, God gave you freewill. You choose.

[Ðanisty]

I agree with everything Faint said and so far, I haven't read a compelling enough argument against it. In fact, the whole Babel incident is one of many that stick out in my mind that really shows how inconsiderate God is. I'm convinced that Christians are never going to understand the other side of the story and vice versa. No matter how much people try to convince me God is good, it never works because their arguments for it are the same ones I see as arguments for God being bad. I used to think there was a possibility that I'd understand it, but now I'm more certain than ever that I've found the right path for me.

[Adstar]

Hello Faint

This is my first real post on this forum so go easy on me

Originally Posted by Faint

I have questions (and I'm being serious in case you have your doubts):

Originally Posted by Faint

1) Why is God so concerned about whether or not we love him? If he is perfect and whole and without desire, why would he want the love of a human? Do you think it's love he wants or unquestioned respect. I think it would be the latter because...

Because loving Him and Knowing He loves us Helps us immensely in our lives here. You are right about the "respect" part also. God wants us to trust in Him with no doubts at all. Love is a emotion that supports trust. Developing this love comes from growing in knowledge of God.

2) Why would God send anyone to hell if he really loved them as he claims? If someone you love breaks your heart, you would be pretty damn cold to want that person to be tortured for eternity. Personally, I want the people I love to be happy whether or not they love me.

Because God above all else is Just, He cannot be unjust. Therefore those who Reject His Love and have no trust in Him will have no place with Him in eternity. This does not mean that God takes delight in sending people away. Scripture declares that God does not want anyone to be lost.

1 Timothy 2
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

3) We run into a lot of problems with translating the Bible, since we have so many languages because (according to scripture) God saw need to mix up the languages in that whole Babel incident. To me, this seems like a strategic mistake on the part of God. If he wanted us to heed him, he should have made his message clearer--maybe by releasing several thousand editions, one for every language.

Well the message of salvation is a pretty simple message indeed. But yes you are right that it is hard to translate the entire bible into many different languages. But then again the simple message of the Messiah Jesus is a simple thing to grasp and easy to translate.

Or, why didn't God use some magic to etch his rules on the psyche of every newborn so there would be no room for interpretational error?

Well we believe that there is such a thing that is commonly called a conscience. Many non-believers have a natural knowledge of what is good and bad. And have feelings of goodness within when they do good and the feelings of guilt when they do bad. But of course people also naturally start to learn how to suppress this conscience from an early age. Many people know that a conscience can get in the way of getting ahead in this world. So for social acceptance and advancement many people shout the little voice inside into submission.

4) Why would God work in "mysterious ways" ? If you want people to respect you and do what you say, wouldn't you be more direct with them about who's in charge? Why all the sneaking around?

Well "mysterious ways" simply means that we do not understand why He is doing something in the way it is being done. Loss of respect does not come from our inability to understand, Loss of respect comes from us thinking that the "mysterious ways" are "foolish ways" or "unjust ways". We being imperfect human beings can understand all of His Good ways but because we are imperfect we will never be able (in this current flesh configuration) to live %100 up to those standards. But we can still try our best anyway and show through our attitude to Gods will that we agree with His will.

5) If you have the ability to withhold something from God (love in this case) doesn't that give you a certain power over him? And, doesn't that mean he is not all-powerful after all?

People have that ability because God allowed them to have that ability. It all comes back to what God's goal is. If Gods goal was to force everyone to be a certain way then everyone would be that way. The fact that people are not tells us that God wants us to have the free will to reject Him. Therefore what God wants are people who will accept Him from their own free will.


I hope i have said something that will interest you Faint.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Karl R]

Originally Posted by Faint

1) Why is God so concerned about whether or not we love him?

Loving god makes it easier for us to do what's right.

Think back to high school. Was there a teacher that you liked and respected? Didn't that respect make you want to try harder in their class than you would have otherwise?

Was their a teacher that you disliked and despised? Didn't that make you want to try to get away with whatever mischief you could in their class?

I could draw similar analogies with jobs that you love and hate.

Originally Posted by Faint

2) Why would God send anyone to hell if he really loved them as he claims? If someone you love breaks your heart, you would be pretty damn cold to want that person to be tortured for eternity.

You're assuming one particular version of hell is correct.

Muslims believe that hell is a place where the unrighteous become purified so they can enter heaven.

C.S. Lewis (a christian theologian) wrote a fiction novel about people in hell who were given a chance to enter heaven ... and some of them chose not to take it. The only condition placed on them was that they give up the behavior that landed them in hell in the first place.

Kushner (a jewish theologian) doens't believe in the afterlife. He believes heaven and hell are what we create on earth as the outcome of our actions.

Originally Posted by Faint

3) We run into a lot of problems with translating the Bible, since we have so many languages because (according to scripture) God saw need to mix up the languages in that whole Babel incident.

The Tower of Babel is a morality tale, not a real incident. One moral of that story is that you can't create a shortcut to heaven.

A linguist could give you a better idea how different languages actually developed.

Originally Posted by Faint

why didn't God use some magic to etch his rules on the psyche of every newborn so there would be no room for interpretational error?

The story of Adam and Eve is another morality tale, but it's an allegory for the way all people behave.

You could put a person in paradis, give them one simple rule that's easy to understand, and they'd get themselves kicked out by breaking it.

The basics of the bible are easy to understand. Following them is the hard part.

Originally Posted by Faint

4) Why would God work in "mysterious ways"? If you want people to respect you and do what you say, wouldn't you be more direct with them about who's in charge? Why all the sneaking around?

God's not trying to be sneaky. We're too ignorant to understand what god is doing.

Let me give you an analogy. A neighbor of mine was in the hospital. He was told that he wasn't allowed to smoke in his room. He lit up anyway. A nurse caught him, and she threw an absolute fit.

When I went to visit my neighbor, he complained about how the nurse was a nut, and that she'd totally overreacted to him smoking.

I pointed out to my neighbor that his roommate was on oxygen. Therefore, his roommate was about as flammable as a puddle of gasoline.

If god explained to you the true purpose behind everything, do you really think you'd understand the answer?

Originally Posted by Faint

5) If you have the ability to withhold something from God (love in this case) doesn't that give you a certain power over him?

Absolutely not. I grew up in a fairly dysfunctional family, and we've pulled stunts like this repeatedly. It doesn't work if the other person realizes what you're trying to do.

Since you can't withhold anything that god actually requires to survive, you have no leverage. (And when dealing with people, withholding survival needs doesn't always work either.)

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I am with Faint and Danisty on this one. The more I read the Bible and listen to people discuss it, the less it makes sense if one attempts to take it as anything more than ancient mythology.

B.

[finalfrogo]

Originally Posted by Faint

I have questions (and I'm being serious in case you have your doubts):

1) Why is God so concerned about whether or not we love him? If he is perfect and whole and without desire, why would he want the love of a human? Do you think it's love he wants or unquestioned respect. I think it would be the latter because...
2) Why would God send anyone to hell if he really loved them as he claims? If someone you love breaks your heart, you would be pretty damn cold to want that person to be tortured for eternity. Personally, I want the people I love to be happy whether or not they love me.
3) We run into a lot of problems with translating the Bible, since we have so many languages because (according to scripture) God saw need to mix up the languages in that whole Babel incident. To me, this seems like a strategic mistake on the part of God. If he wanted us to heed him, he should have made his message clearer--maybe by releasing several thousand editions, one for every language. Or, why didn't God use some magic to etch his rules on the psyche of every newborn so there would be no room for interpretational error?
4) Why would God work in "mysterious ways"? If you want people to respect you and do what you say, wouldn't you be more direct with them about who's in charge? Why all the sneaking around?
5) If you have the ability to withhold something from God (love in this case) doesn't that give you a certain power over him? And, doesn't that mean he is not all-powerful after all?

You're right; it doesn't make sense. It's the Bible.

[Bangbang]

Whe you stop trying to make sense of it you will understand it and set free of its chains. The reason it does not make sense to you is because you are reading it from the bekief that it is the Word of God. You are having trouble equating the Bible with what church leaders have taught you(brainwashed). Thats normal because the Bible is not the word of God. It was written by man for man.