Where Bin Laden Comes From (followers, hell, America, scriptures)

[Darkdale]

Usama Bin Laden is Richard the Lionheart; he is a paranoid, idealistic, and impregnable warrior. His call to war against Americans and Jews is quasi-well-founded, hopeless, and obstinate, simply because it is grounded in both a religious zeal and a nationalist pride. In the interview with Usama Bin Laden by his followers, in 1998, he says,

"The call to wage war against America was made because America has spearheaded the crusade against the Islamic nation, sending tens of thousands of its troops to the land of the two Holy Mosques, over and above its meddling in its affairs and its politics and its support of the oppressive, corrupt, and tyrannical regime that is in control. These are the reasons behind the singling out of America as a target. […] Their presence has no meaning save one and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine who are in need of their Christian brothers to achieve full control over the Arab Peninsula, which they intend to make an important part of the so called Greater Israel."


In this we find both a quasi-well-founded understanding of the United States’ presence in the Arab world, idealistic religious zeal, and an astonishing case of paranoia. It is true that were it not for the presence of oil and the state of Israel, the United States would never have taken an interest in the Arab region (think of Darfur as an example of American inaction in the face of terrible tragedy). But it is not true that the United States and Israel are conspiring to create a Great Israel capable of controlling the entire region. It is true that the United States has lent support to a government of oil robber barons, who impoverish their own people while hording indefinable amounts of wealth. But the United States is not supporting them for that reason, and is only in the region because of its magnanimous defense of sovereign Kuwait. Was our magnanimous defense encouraged by our dependence on Kuwait’s oil and our growing distrust of the oppressive Saddam regime? Absolutely. We owe no apologies for our motives. We could have done nothing.

Bin Laden goes on to praise the use of terrorism, “The terrorism we practice is of the commendable kind, for it is directed at the tyrants and the aggressors and the enemies of Allah...” What makes America the enemy of Allah? Is not the United States home to 5.8 million Muslims (according the World Almanac 2001)? Do not Christians, Jews, and Muslims live in peace according to the virtues of civility, freedom, and mutual respect? Bin Laden’s paranoia has clearly affected his judgment. In fact, in reading the words of Bin Laden, it would appear that non-Muslims are the ones who are in need of fear. “Praise be to God, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: ‘But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)’”.

As a pagan, this is somewhat frightening. Though, no less frightening than the threats made against us in other Abrahamic scriptures. However, Bin Laden’s ambitions, which are clearly antagonistic to modern Islamic sentiments, are disturbingly belligerent. “We- with God’s help- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God’s order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it.” Obliviously any chance of coexistence is impossible. Clearly we cannot share the virtues of civility, liberty, and mutual respect, while honoring the beautiful differences in our cultures, our heritages, and our religions.

Bin Laden has a reasonable complaint against the United States’ occupations in the region. Yet his fanatical religious zeal, which inevitably occurs in the presence of theocratic nationalism, has made him paranoid and impossible. But there is a lesson for the United States. If we continue to superciliously ignore Arab sentiment and distrust with regard to our intentions, if we fail to respect the realities in which the Arab peoples find themselves, and if we callously move forward with the impression that we can make them just like us, we will find ourselves fighting not one Bin Laden, but hundreds of thousands of them.

[Victor]

Good post.. Must spread karma.

[Darkdale]

Originally Posted by Victor

Good post.. Must spread karma.

Thanks - I should note that the last two quotes came from "Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders: World Islamic Front Statement" on February 23rd, 1998, and authored by Bin Laden, al-Zawahiri, Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha (from Egypt), Shaykh Mir Hamzah (of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan), and Fazlur Rahman (of Bangladesh).

[CAPPA]

But there is a lesson for the United States. If we continue to superciliously ignore Arab sentiment and distrust with regard to our intentions, if we fail to respect the realities in which the Arab peoples find themselves, and if we callously move forward with the impression that we can make them just like us, we will find ourselves fighting not one Bin Laden, but hundreds of thousands of them.

Your post was well thought out and a good read. However, I believe we are already at that point in some respects now... these Islamic extremists have been able to spread their message quite well. And, as a result, I believe, we may not face a hundred Bin Laden's, but, 10,000 people who blindly (for lack of a better word,) follow in his ideology and more importantly are willing to execute his threats. I highly doubt our presence in the Middle East will lessen (for obvious reasons,) as will the fight between us and them. I wonder, however, if we actually "retreated" from the Middle East, and sort of removed all the fuel for Bin Laden's fire, would it stop? Would this feud actually come to an end? Anyway, great post.

[Darkdale]

Originally Posted by CAPPA

I wonder, however, if we actually "retreated" from the Middle East, and sort of removed all the fuel for Bin Laden's fire, would it stop? Would this feud actually come to an end? Anyway, great post.

If we retreat, it will just encourage the terrorists. But maybe we should encourage them. I don't know what to do at this point. I think we should be more cynical with the Middle East. We should be striking fast and violently, and then getting the hell out of there.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Darkdale

If we retreat, it will just encourage the terrorists. But maybe we should encourage them. I don't know what to do at this point. I think we should be more cynical with the Middle East. We should be striking fast and violently, and then getting the hell out of there.

Frankly, anything we do will be wrong. Fruballs to you though.

[kevmicsmi]

Originally Posted by Darkdale

If we retreat, it will just encourage the terrorists. But maybe we should encourage them. I don't know what to do at this point. I think we should be more cynical with the Middle East. We should be striking fast and violently, and then getting the hell out of there.

I agree if we retreat, we will empower them and show them they have been right about us since Vietnam. Too many times, America has shown itself to lose its will when bodybags come home. IMHO The Terrorists in the ME do not respect or fear us and will not until America shows some staying power when situations worsen.

[kevmicsmi]

[quote=
Bin Laden has a reasonable complaint against the United States’ occupations in the region..[/QUOTE]

What is reasonable about his compaint? Our troops stationed in Saudi Arabia are the only protection the Saudi Leaders have from their own people!

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

DD another spot on post. I hope I am alive when the day comes that someone discover's a viable alternative to our dependence upon Oil and its byproducts and we can let the scumbags like bin Laden and his ilk go back to cutting off one another's heads because of the differing ways in which they worship their one true God instead of exporting that anger to us.

B.

[Darkdale]

Originally Posted by kevmicsmi

What is reasonable about his compaint? Our troops stationed in Saudi Arabia are the only protection the Saudi Leaders have from their own people!

Well, you've got to understand the history of the Middle East. Since the first World War, there as been all kinds of European meddling in the Middle East. England and France carved the Middle East in the most illogical fashion. The old Ottoman administrators tried to warn Europe that if they split things up the way the did that they'd be facing years of civil war.

Bin Laden has a reasonable complaint. We are still interfering in the region. Now, I think we are right. I think Bin Laden is wrong. But he isn't just a crazy man or a Xenophobe. But understanding where he is coming from is important to understanding how dangerous he is.

You've got to understand that the Arab people's were for the longest time living under a single culture and even a single government. There have always been factions, but under Ottoman rule, everyone got along well enough. But now they aren't one people. The British and the French divided and conquered the middle east. It remains divided.

Anyway, it is important to understand the problem - so that you can think the way they think - to respect them... even as you kill them.

Remember, the reason why Bin Laden is attacking America is because they DON'T understand us! They think we want to rule them. To control them. To get rid of Islam. They are paranoid and their paranoia is spreading. The more violent they get, the more active we become in the region and they look at that and say, "See! I told they wanted to take over everything".