Muslims can't get saved (Jesus Christ, priest, rituals, moral, Earth)

[Judgement Day]

Originally Posted by Ibrahim Al-Amin

I believe Osama bin Laden is evil, and I believe Pat Robertson is his sidekick, yet their followers will insist upon their piety.

Pat Robertson...he really gets into my nerve.

[sky87]

old thread, but wtv.. ever since i came on this site, which was yesterday, ive noticed the many unjustifiable attacks on muslims. there is this illogical notion of us being terrorists, and stupid, and what not. is it so hard to actually read up about a religion and then judge it? whatever happened to that good old saying "don't judge a book by its cover" ? reading over a lot of the posts, i thought a lot of the kids here were smart until i came upon these crazy hate statements against muslims! it disgusts me! i can keep on writing on and on, just giving you proofs from the qur'an to back up my statements, but im not going to do that. but i just want to get some points across: there are many farce sites on the internet, there have been many farce qur'ans made as well, wrong translations have been posted all over the net to mislead people. and another term, jihad, does NOT mean killing others! it does NOT mean hurthing others! let me point out that our prophet pbuh did not like wars, there is also a rule to follow during battles and wars, which is to not hurt any innocent persons, women, children, and even trees! and wars and battles were only applicable to the times of our prophet pbuh where muslims were treated brutally in mecca. the taliban and the al-qaeda have misinterpreted these terms, and i feel disgusted to even call them muslims after what they have done! and most muslims (like myself) do not agree with these extremist terrorist groups.
the terrorist groups are bad i agree, and you call them uncivilized, and evil, but what about some of the west? the west is stabbing the middle east, but doing it slowly, and painfully, and almost "slyly" the taliban is all out in the open, but the west is doing secretly, killing innocent children and women in iraq, afghanistan, etc; now the west is going for iran. you don't always hear about the innocent people being killed EVERY single day, but i do, and i care, and it hurts me, these are my fellow innocent muslims being killed so brutally! ever seen the disgusting images at abu ghraib? have any of you ever tried to focus on the pain that us musilms are going through? ever heard of OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM, well its short form is: O.I.L. judge for yourself, and there is lots more, and it angers me to read all of these hate comments against muslims, before writing these statements please "think" before you do it hastily

[Ormiston]

I was just about to take your side and then I got to the 2nd paragraph. Do you want to talk about religious views or political? My original thought was that many people are simply frustrated with the situation with Islamic Terrorists and that's why Muslims are getting a bad rap, but then you rationalized terrorism and murder. I'll tell you one way Muslims can get back in good grace with everyone: get rid of your leaders that preach violence and hate. And, believe me, the US could use a good dose of this as well. I doubt I'll ever vote for a Republican as long as I live.

But, I guess I do take your side on a strictly religious/respectful side. People should be a bit more patient with the Muslims on the site and understand that they are frustrated as well.

[sky87]

i didn't "rationalize" terrorism and murder! i was trying to compare two sides, most of you only see how the west is being hurt by muslims (the september 11th attacks, and the hostages, etc; etc; and i agree that all of this is bad, so don't misinterpret my statements) but what about the muslims being hurt by the west? go read the middle eastern part of the news in your international newspaper, and you will see how many people get killed every single day because of the west! what about those horrid series of bombs on iraq? or the killings of innocent people in afghanistan? or how about the crazy attacks on muslims here in north america? my friend's scarf was pulled off by some idiot! mosques were vandalized, people throw hate comments, life is hard for us! we're known as terrorists, without any reasonable thought! nobody ever looks at things from our point of view, muslims don't believe in war, we believe that killing even one person is equivalent to killing all of mankind! we are good people, we believe in peace. and yes i agree, our leaders have given us a bad name, they have made their own religion, and fight in the name of islam, which is sickening, i hate seeing men with covered faces, holding guns in their hands aiming towards innocent people, saying that they are diong it in the name of islam! its ghastly, and i don't agree with it, please don't misconstrue my statements

[Ormiston]

Originally Posted by sky87

i didn't "rationalize" terrorism and murder! i was trying to compare two sides, most of you only see how the west is being hurt by muslims (the september 11th attacks, and the hostages, etc; etc; and i agree that all of this is bad, so don't misinterpret my statements) but what about the muslims being hurt by the west? go read the middle eastern part of the news in your international newspaper, and you will see how many people get killed every single day because of the west! what about those horrid series of bombs on iraq? or the killings of innocent people in afghanistan? or how about the crazy attacks on muslims here in north america? my friend's scarf was pulled off by some idiot! mosques were vandalized, people throw hate comments, life is hard for us! we're known as terrorists, without any reasonable thought! nobody ever looks at things from our point of view, muslims don't believe in war, we believe that killing even one person is equivalent to killing all of mankind! we are good people, we believe in peace. and yes i agree, our leaders have given us a bad name, they have made their own religion, and fight in the name of islam, which is sickening, i hate seeing men with covered faces, holding guns in their hands aiming towards innocent people, saying that they are diong it in the name of islam! its ghastly, and i don't agree with it, please don't misconstrue my statements

I am sorry if I misunderstood you. I hate the whole situation. It does seem impossible to even wrap the mind about the whole scene. I work with a Christian Palestinian who has been running through the history of the Middle East with me over the last hundred years or so and it's so complicated with so many agendas. Many of us Americans truly believed that the war against Iraq was wrong but, at the very least, a democracy would be established. We take it for granted that this is, of course, the best thing for the people there when, in reality, I don't have the faintest clue what the best thing to do is. Everyone is afraid and frustrated and can't get the images of 9/11 out of our heads. The Islamic front the terrorists use combined with a general lack of understanding about Islamic people make it very easy for most people to simply lump all Muslims together and assume there is something inherently wrong with their beliefs. I don't feel this way. I think there are many things wrong with the entire region and the good Muslim citizens there are the victims.

[finalfrogo]

Originally Posted by Ardhanariswar

Jesus taught against hate and taught love. this, this is not love. this is hate.

ive been on that forum as gerani. im going on there on and off now. it just annoyed me when one of them remarked that buddhist chanting will be heard in hell. oh lord. it pains me, it really does. i just want to yell and stop them, but i cannot, no one can. people will just remain people.

Ugh... I know, I know. All they care about is Hell. Hell. Hell. Hell.

[finalfrogo]

Originally Posted by Ardhanariswar

"Muslims can't get saved"

saved from what? darkness? ignorance? theres fire and education. lets worship that.

Hm... thats one of the main reasons im not as very participatory in religions forums (or any other forum for that matter). I want to focus on this life. We only have this life, lets worry about what comes after when it comes. seriously. Do what you believe in your heart and that is enough i think.

Indeed.

[ayani]

Originally Posted by finalfrogo

Ugh... I know, I know. All they care about is Hell. Hell. Hell. Hell.

which begs the question- if a faith is centered around fear of and rescue from Hell, what kind of goodness does it hope to offer the living *before* they die?

a mere assurance that they won't be thrown into hell? where do good works , compassion, and love come in?

[sky87]

^ when you say a faith, which one are you referring to? if its islam, then i would like to respond. islam is not centered around "fear"! islam tells its followers to live a meaningful life, a life that accomplishes its purpose, we are to share a deep relationship with god, hence we are to pray 5 times a day, god has said to us in the qur'an that he loves us 80 times more than our mother (that would answer the love and compassion part of your question), and we are to turn to him not only in times of trouble, but all times, we are to remember him, and thank him for what he has given us. and you may be thinking, that we're just wasting our time! once you get used to it, its more of a meditation, a time of reflection, and that relationship that you share with him at that moment is priceless, its beautiful. And us muslims don't have "rigid" guidelines, once you look into our religion you will notice how easy those guidelines are to follow! i would know because i wasn't the best muslim two to three years ago. islam for me has provided me with the meaning of life, i like living a pure life, of course everyone sins, for example lying, back biting, etc; etc; but limiting these things will change you, and you will feel better about yourself, we are allowed pleasure and enjoyment, but to a good limit, we are not to involve ourself too much with the materialistic world. Us muslims believe greatly in unison, take our annual pilgrimage to mecca (known as hajj) as an example: everyone wears white, and the cloth is to be very simple, in order to show unison and equality amongst all, people of all colors, status, ethnicity, come together to show their love for god, and show their unison and equality, everyone is equal in the eyes of god and that is the way that we should live. and living this way not only gives us pleasure in this life, but it also gives us assurance for the next life. hope that answers your question gracie

[ayani]

sky- i was refering to certain christians.

as i understand islam, it is not at all built around fear of hell and salvation in the way that those christian groups are.

so don't worry!