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  #1  
Old 01-18-2006, 01:30 PM
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Default Islam: male superiority and wife beating?

I was wondering about chapter 4 part 34 in the Quran which (one translation) says: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means: For Allah is Most High, Great."

Am I reading this correctly? Is this a good translation? I ask because what I see here is:
1) Islam sets the men above women
2) Women are meant to be obedient to men (to obey)
3) Men are given divine permission to beat women

Any truth to that?
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Old 01-18-2006, 01:54 PM
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within the last century in England, men were allowed to both rape their wives, and beat them with a stick no thicker than their thumb - this changed in the 1960's i think, i shall check

my point is, we have really only just started aquiring equality for women in our own cultures, and we certainly haven't reached equality yet it is not just islam that teaches this
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Old 01-18-2006, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike182
my point is, we have really only just started aquiring equality for women in our own cultures, ...
Therefore?
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Old 01-18-2006, 02:27 PM
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An excerpt From:-http://students.washington.edu/neenee31/Eggers%20Spousal%20Abuse%20in%20Islam.htm

Nicole Eggers

Philosophy 338 – Human Rights

Final Paper

It is my intention to augment Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. As the right stands, it states “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.” I wish to add an addendum that states “No person shall be subject to physical harm of any kind, even if the justifications for this physical harm are religious in nature. All persons have the right to protection under the law from physical harm.” This would be a positive right for anyone to have police protection if they are beaten by someone based merely on religious grounds which stated they were justified due to a religious authority’s sanctification. If a wife has been beaten by her husband, and she brings the matter to the police, her husband cannot claim he was merely following the guidelines of his religion as justification for the physical abuse. His wife should be allowed to have the opportunity to ‘press charges’ against her husband as he has physically abused her, and his defense on religious grounds would be completely null and void. This supplement to Article 3 comes from my research into the Islamic practice of spousal abuse, namely the verses in the Quran that state a man is justified religiously by the teachings of Allah to beat his wife if she is disobedient to him.

In Islamic culture, the male gender is considered to be superior to the female gender. It is stated in the Islamic holy text, the Quran, that "Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other." Men are given overarching power in any and all situations because their religious authority has dictated that men are inherently greater than women. Men are seen as the “protectors and maintainers” of women as God has endowed the male gender with greater strength and thus a greater ability to care for the female.The website islamonline.net, which was created to inform both Islamic and Non-Islamic scholars alike on the teaching of the Quran, which states their God, Allah, dictated to his prophets, "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them (females) from their (males) means.

Author Silas states on the website answeringislam.org, a website designed to create dialogue between Christians and Muslims, that according to these passages, males in Islam believe that such passages confirm the mindset that the male of the household “should always be honored and respected in his home as if he were ‘god.’” Allah’s definition of the male as superior over the female allows the male to see themselves as the ‘god’ of their household, and therefore their wives are to serve and obey them as if they were actual ‘gods.’

The Quran presents steps for a husband to follow when dealing with a rebellious wife. First, he is to “verbally admonish” her, and if this fails he is to desert her sexually. If both of these attempts fail, then the male is advised by the Islamic religious authority, Allah, to beat his wife in order to correct her dissident behavior. Female disobedience is wholly despised by Islam as the males are the dictated leaders and holders of all overarching power. The Islamic holy text, the Quran, states that according to their supreme religious authority, Allah, a man is permitted to physically harm his disobedient wife in order to correct her actions as he is the superior sex and has the ability to control her actions as he sees fit. M. Rafiqul-Haqq and P. Newton, two prominent Islamic authors wrote in their online essay, The Place of Women in Pure Islam, “…in his private home, a man is to be seen as a ‘god’ who must be obeyed by his wife as if he was truly a ‘ruling god’.” Sheikh Yousef Qaradhawi, the chief of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, states "Because of his natural ability and his responsibility for providing for his family, the man is the head of the house and of the family. He is entitled to the obedience and cooperation of his wife.”
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Old 01-18-2006, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule
Therefore?
therefore although i agree we should all push for equality, its a bit tongue in cheek to down right criticise another religion/culture when ours is not all that much better
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Old 01-18-2006, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike182
therefore although i agree we should all push for equality, its a bit tongue in cheek to down right criticise another religion/culture when ours is not all that much better
As far as I know, our culture doesn't have mores which advocate beating women. But (as you know) I will openly criticize any religion which is not good for humanity--no matter when it was written.
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Old 01-18-2006, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Faint
As far as I know, our culture doesn't have mores which advocate beating women. But (as you know) I will openly criticize any religion which is not good for humanity--no matter when it was written.
If you deem the islamic beliefs on this as being morally wrong, then fair enough, but change happens over time, as it did in our cultures
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Old 01-18-2006, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike182
therefore although i agree we should all push for equality, its a bit tongue in cheek to down right criticise another religion/culture when ours is not all that much better
If you seriously believe that, when it comes to attitudes toward and the treatment of women, the culture in Nottingham is "not all that much better" than the culture in Teheran, you are both naive and delusional.

Last edited by Jayhawker Soule; 01-18-2006 at 03:18 PM..
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Old 01-18-2006, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule
If you seriously believe that, when it comes to attitudes toward and the treatment of women, the culture in Nottingham is "not all that much better" the culture in Teheran, you are both naive and delusional.
yea, but 50 years ago, women were treated like @#/? in nottingham! what im trying to say is yes we should campaign for women everywhere to get equal rights, but if we come over in a massively condeming way, we will achieve nothing - which not what any of us wants.

for instance, if you argue to persuade people to come round to your way of thinking, you are more likely to suceed that if you go barging in saying "do you seriously believe the crud you've been believing all your lifes??!! get real!" which is how faint came across in her original post
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Old 01-18-2006, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike182
yea, but 50 years ago, women were treated like @#/? in nottingham! what im trying to say is yes we should campaign for women everywhere to get equal rights, but if we come over in a massively condeming way, we will achieve nothing - which not what any of us wants.
I'm glad you agree that things need to improve for women in the Islamic world (perhaps everywhere). But I wouldn't be so quick to discount radical thoughts and condemning words...they usually appeal to the youth of a nation, which would be the best target for a paradigm shift (since older generations tend to die off).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike182
for instance, if you argue to persuade people to come round to your way of thinking, you are more likely to suceed that if you go barging in saying "do you seriously believe the crud you've been believing all your lifes??!! get real!" which is how faint came across in her original post
Gently align and redirerct their way of thinking? Sure, that works sometimes. Or... you can use strong words to rally anyone else who's listening and then all come barging in together. In my observations, raw emotion tends to persuade masses of people far better than reason or logic given in polite conversation. I like the "force the enemy into submission" approach, which seems to do well in the animal kingdom (of which we are still a part). But I'm not really trying to do either here.
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