The journey or the destination (ritual, moral, Creator, beliefs)

[maggie2]

Recently I had one of those 'a-ha' moments where I think I discovered something that helps me understand one of the differences between those who are part of an organized religion and those of us who consider ourselves spiritual seekers. Before going any further, I need to stress that this is not a hard and fast 'rule', simply an observation of a contributing factor in those differences.

Here's what I discovered: People who belong to conservative, fundamentalist, evangelical or charismatic belief systems often are those who like to have everything worked out. They want to know that their faith is based on black and white answers and that there is no room for doubt. They have arrived at a destination (their particular set of beliefs) where they are comfortable with this dwelling place and have little if any desire to explore new spiritual ideas. In other words, they are more interested in the destination than the journey. The comfort they feel in knowing that they are on the right track is profound for them.

Those who are spiritual seekers, on the other hand, are far more interested in the journey than any destination. They want to discover new ideas and concepts that can expand their views of God and help them to have a deeper understanding of their world and its Creator. They do not need, nor even desire, to 'arrive', to have all the answers. The wonder and joy and freedom that they experience while continuing on their spiritual journey is so profound that they have no desire to ever 'arrive'. They want to continue to explore and learn new concepts and ideas until the day they die.

Now I"m not here to say that one way is right and the other wrong. That's not the point. I do think, though, that if we could see one another through this filter, we might have a bit more tolerance for the other's position. I find that the vast majority of those on this forum are quite tolerant and I thought they might find this comparison helpful in shedding light on what could be one of the contributing factors to some of our differences.

Do you think that these two different approaches to spiritual matters may contribute to some choosing to be 'arrivers' and others choosing to be 'explorers'? What are your experiences in this matter?

[ChrisP]

Everyone does things for their own reasons. It's too hard to try and make a rule, because rules always get broken, usually by me .

[Victor]

I am a firm believer of "I will submit to truth, whether I like what I find or not".

[michel]

Originally Posted by Maggie2

Do you think that these two different approaches to spiritual matters may contribute to some choosing to be 'arrivers' and others choosing to be 'explorers'? What are your experiences in this matter?

Interesting, because according to your deductions (which sound very true), I ought to be main-stram conservative religion.

I personally am terrified of 'greys' - mostly because I can't trust myself (or I feel I can't trust myself) with greys.

'Greys' to me, lead to an elastic conscience. An elastic conscience is IMO dangerous, because who is going to police the elasticity..ie is it ok for me to pick up a $5 off the pavement and put it in my pocket, a $10, $100. $100.........etc. At what time does it become 'immoral' ?

So, although I can't afford to have greys, I live in a mess of bits and pieces of various religions and philosophies that make up a tailor made Faith of my own.

Incidentally, it is extremely unhealthy (psychologically) to live in Black and whites, because you end up being wrong most of the time.........

[ChrisP]

Originally Posted by michel

Interesting, because according to your deductions (which sound very true), I ought to be main-stram conservative religion.

I personally am terrified of 'greys' - mostly because I can't trust myself (or I feel I can't trust myself) with greys.

'Greys' to me, lead to an elastic conscience.

Take things as they come Michel, just because you don't have any preset opinions, doesn't mean you can't have a conscience. Your natural reaction to a situation should tell you whether something is right or wrong.

[maggie2]

Originally Posted by ChrisP

Everyone does things for their own reasons. It's too hard to try and make a rule, because rules always get broken, usually by me .

Well, Chris, here's the second sentence of my post: Before going any further, I need to stress that this is not a hard and fast 'rule', simply an observation of a contributing factor in those differences. Seems to me I did make the point that this was not a rule, but an observation. And I know what you mean about breaking the rules...I'm the worse one for that.

[maggie2]

Originally Posted by michel

Interesting, because according to your deductions (which sound very true), I ought to be main-stram conservative religion.

I personally am terrified of 'greys' - mostly because I can't trust myself (or I feel I can't trust myself) with greys.

'Greys' to me, lead to an elastic conscience. An elastic conscience is IMO dangerous, because who is going to police the elasticity..ie is it ok for me to pick up a $5 off the pavement and put it in my pocket, a $10, $100. $100.........etc. At what time does it become 'immoral' ?

So, although I can't afford to have greys, I live in a mess of bits and pieces of various religions and philosophies that make up a tailor made Faith of my own.

Incidentally, it is extremely unhealthy (psychologically) to live in Black and whites, because you end up being wrong most of the time.........

Michel,
I see what you're saying, however, you and I both know wrong from right and we can trust ourselves to do what is right. Grey has not given me any such thing as an elastic conscience. It has, however, given me an elastic sense of inclusion and acceptance of others. I find I expect myself to behave in ways that I believe to be ethical and fair just as I did before becoming more open. I also expect that of others. However, what I have lost, to a great extent, is my judgemental attitude...where I expect others to believe as I do. I am very firm in my belief that stealing and cheating and those other things are immoral because they hurt others and ourselves. I am equally convinced that judging others is just as wrong, however. So while I've been able to give up much of my judgemental ways I haven't picked up any other undesireable traits along the way. I haven't gotten any more immoral than I ever was. And guess what, neither will you, even though you see the greys.

[ChrisP]

Originally Posted by maggie2

Michel,
I see what you're saying, however, you and I both know wrong from right and we can trust ourselves to do what is right. Grey has not given me any such thing as an elastic conscience. It has, however, given me an elastic sense of inclusion and acceptance of others. I find I expect myself to behave in ways that I believe to be ethical and fair just as I did before becoming more open. I also expect that of others. However, what I have lost, to a great extent, is my judgemental attitude...where I expect others to believe as I do. I am very firm in my belief that stealing and cheating and those other things are immoral because they hurt others and ourselves. I am equally convinced that judging others is just as wrong, however. So while I've been able to give up much of my judgemental ways I haven't picked up any other undesireable traits along the way. I haven't gotten any more immoral than I ever was. And guess what, neither will you, even though you see the greys.

Great Post!! Listen to the nice lady Michel .