Is Unitarian Universalism a REAL religion? (Jesus, rituals, reject, beliefs)

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Does UU recieve tax exempt status because it is viewed as a religion by the US government?

Yes. Which was recently challenged in Texas, but UU won out. The lack of creed or dogma has been a cause for criticism among some who argue that Unitarian Universalism is thus without religious content. In May 2004, Texas Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn ruled that Unitarian Universalism was not a religion because it "does not have one system of belief," and stripped the Red River Unitarian Universalist Church in Denison, Texas of its tax-exempt status. However, within weeks Strayhorn reversed her decision. - Wikipedia

[jamaesi]

Hopefully some UUs here can give me some insider info about their meme-complex to end my confusion. For instance, on the UUA.org website, there are seven "principles and purposes" listed. What if I only followed/agreed with four out of the seven--can I still be a UU? What if I believed in accepting what is reasonable from other religions, but was intolerant towards certain tenets of others? As I understand it, a person can be agnostic/atheist or a theist and still be a UU. They can either take part in a ritual, or not agree with rituals. They can attend church or not. They can accept this spirituality, or that one, or have no spirituality at all! How is this a religion?

How isn't it?

You have to affirm all seven principals to be a UU- and none of those principals say anything about having to follow rituals or the like to be religious. In fact, they lead me to believe you can choose to partcipate in them or not. A big part of UU is that there are so many paths and they all have value, who is anyone to say that "you have to do this to be religious."

[Fluffy]

Yes. Which was recently challenged in Texas, but UU won out.

Argh it just had to be Texas didn't it...

[Super Universe]

I think religion has a purpose. If it helps you then keep with it. But eventually you should begin to look elsewhere. The bible is mid-level training. There are higher forms.

People join religions because of the common belief structure. They must maintain this common belief in order to keep within the group but we are not all on the same level. Mother Teresa was a much better person than I (not because of her religion but because of her selfless devotion to others) but I am going to do my best to catch up with her.

Make a conscious choice that you wish to remember your dreams. Place a pad and pen by the bed to remind you when you wakeup each morning that you should try to remember your dreams. Then pick a problem and spend time each day examining it. Ask others their opinion then let it stew. Keep checking that pad each morning.

You will be surprised.

[Faint]

Originally Posted by Maize

I have no idea where you're going with that. But no, all UUs would not be Faintists because we believe in affirming all 7 Principles, you can't leave out any.

Well, I mean, more from the perspective of the Faintists. Like, I can say a Faintist is someone who believes:

The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
A free and responsible search for truth and meaning

And anything else s/he wants to believe, as long as it doesn't conflict with these four principles. Therefore, UUs could also be Faintists, just Faintists who believe in three extra principles (which don't conflict). By this reasoning, both Faintists and UUs are also part of the Universal Life Church because they only have two tenets, which seem to be very similar to your own, just phrased a little differently: "The church has two tenets: the absolute right of freedom of religion and to do that, which is right."

Where I'm going with this is that the label "Unitarian Universalist" seems to be unnecessary, since it only describes 7 personal beliefs which may be only 7 of 100 (or however many) personal beliefs in a person's mind. Why define yourself based on only 7 beliefs? It seems limiting to me. What if a good portion of UUs believe in not only the 7 principles, but also an eighth? Wouldn't the lot of them be better classified as something else? What if several thousand UUs all agree with 9 principles? If you're trying to define people, wouldn't it be better to refer to them with a different label to distinguish them from those who only believe in 7 principles? And where do you stop? I think it would be better to call UU a philosophy (instead of a religion), and just say you agree with it, instead of defining yourself as a Unitarian Universalist or attending church? As there is no set rituals, no set god(s) to worship--why have churches anyway?

Take me for example. I use the term "hedonism" for "religion" in my profile here to give a general idea where I'm coming from, although hedonism is not a religion at all, nor is it how I would define myself. I could have also put "surfing", as that is important to me. Or "girl chasing" or "songwriting" for the same reasons. Each of these have certain "principles" to them, but I wouldn't call any of them a religion.


Incidently, I'm not trying to put down UU itself, only the way it is categorized.

[Fluffy]

Incidently, I'm not trying to put down UU itself, only the way it is categorized.

Do you think UU is deserving of tax exempt status?

[Green Gaia]

Where I'm going with this is that the label "Unitarian Universalist" seems to be unnecessary, since it only describes 7 personal beliefs

It also defines our historical roots. I think you're a little confused here. UU is much more than the 7 Principles, but that is all that is asked of members to affirm and promote. Everything we do stems from our belief that those principles are worthy of upholding. But we don't just sit around all Sunday and chant the 7 Principles. We explore other religions, we work on social action projects, etc.

I think it would be better to call UU a philosophy (instead of a religion), and just say you agree with it, instead of defining yourself as a Unitarian Universalist or attending church?

Well, that's your opinion. I don't agree with you. I like going to my UU church and meeting with others who believe in religious freedom as I do. Also, our churches serve as great way to organize social action projects, which is also very important to UUs.

As there is no set rituals, no set god(s) to worship--why have churches anyway?

Do you need a god to worship to have a religion or go to church?

We do have rituals, lighting of the chalice is one that every UU church shares, but each church will include rituals important to it's history and members.

Incidently, I'm not trying to put down UU itself, only the way it is categorized.

You don't like that it's called a religion? Why? Because it's not like other religions? No, we're not like other religions. Like I quoted before, UU is not about adhering to a religious doctrine, but rather a way of being religious. We just have a different idea of what that means than other religions do. So why should that invalidate us as a religion?

[Faint]

Originally Posted by Maize

What is your definition of religion?

"the service and worship of God or the supernatural; commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance" and "a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices".

I still don't think that the 7 principles and the fact that UUs "explore other religions...work on social action projects, etc." qualifies for this definition. After all, Stephen Covey put together 7 principles for people to follow in "7 Habits of Highly Effective People"; plus, there are College classes which explore religions, and many activist groups that work on social action projects. However...

[quote=Maize]Do you need a god to worship to have a religion or go to church?/QUOTE]
I think you should only have a church in the first place if you worship something that requires one. Otherwise, just hold meetings somewhere.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a UU member does not need to have faith in anything, right?

Originally Posted by Maize

We do have rituals, lighting of the chalice is one that every UU church shares, but each church will include rituals important to it's history and members.

What if a member chooses never to light the chalice? Is s/he still a UU?

Originally Posted by Maize

You don't like that it's called a religion? Why? Because it's not like other religions? No, we're not like other religions. Like I quoted before, UU is not about adhering to a religious doctrine, but rather a way of being religious. We just have a different idea of what that means than other religions do. So why should that invalidate us as a religion?

At the moment, I don't like that it's called a religion because it sounds more like a philosophy, and even though the English language is already pretty screwed up, I get nitpicky when people (for whatever reason) try to declare something what it is not.

But my opinion is still flexible on UU...that's why I'm asking questions.

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Do you think UU is deserving of tax exempt status?

As a non-profit organization, yes. If they are not a non-profit organization, no.