Calling all Gnostics..and anyone else who cares to join in (Jesus, Earth)

[michel]

I was looking on the internet the other day for information on Astral projection; and one of the links was to Gnosticism (The Wikipedia Page). A short extract is reproduced below:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
Gnosticism is a blanket term for various mystical initiatory religions, sects and knowledge schools, which were most prominent in the first few centuries CE. It is also applied to modern revivals of these groups and, sometimes, by analogy to all religious movements based on secret knowledge gnosis, thus can lead to confusion.

The occult nature of gnostic teaching (as seen from a modern viewpoint) and the fact that much of the material relating to the schools comprising Gnosticism has traditionally come from critiques by orthodox Christians make it difficult to be precise about early Christian gnostic systems. Irenaeus (Adversus Haereses) described several different schools of 2nd century gnosticism in disparaging and often sarcastic detail while contrasting them with Christianity, to their detriment. Nevertheless, most discussion of gnosticism relied heavily on Irenaeus and other heresiologists; in fairness to investigators, this was not by choice, but because of a simple lack of alternative sources.

This state of affairs continued from antiquity through to modern times; in 1945, however, there was a chance discovery of a cache of 4th-century gnostic texts in Nag Hammadi, Egypt. The texts, which had been sealed inside earthen jars, were discovered by a local man called Mohammed Ali. He at first was afraid to open the jars, as he believed they might contain an evil spirit or djinn, and that opening a jar might release it. When he overcame his fear and returned home with the texts his mother, possessed of a similar fear, burned several of the texts. The remaining manuscripts, now known as the Nag Hammadi library, allowed for the study of apparently gnostic texts at first hand for the first time since the 4th century. The translation of the texts into English was completed in 1977; other modern languages followed. This has immensely clarified more recent discussions of gnosticism in Antiquity, though many would agree that the topic still remains a murky one.

At the same time, modern gnosticism has continued to develop, from origins in the Occultism of the 19th century. Thus "gnosticism" is also applied to many modern sects where only initiates have access to arcana. However, there has always been a great deal of diversity within gnosticism and modern gnostic doctrines sometimes have little to do with ancient gnosticism; the application of the antiquated term to these distinctly modern movements, far from being a clarification of the nature of gnosticism, further occludes its true nature. In fact, it may be argued that the unfortunate vagueness of the term 'gnosticism' allows modern sects - which actually bear little resemblance to ancient gnosticism beyond the superficial - to easily appropriate the term, thereby implying an inheritance of a supposed 'gnostic tradition' in order to add theological and historical weight to their own views.

I realize that Gnosticism must be a 'blanket' Religious following with many individualized sub-divisions, and I wondered how many of you associate with the description above (any of the above beliefs that don't apply to you, and if there are others that do so, then I'd like to hear about those).

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by michel

I was looking on the internet the other day for information on Astral projection; and one of the links was to Gnosticism (The Wikipedia Page). A short extract is reproduced below:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
Gnosticism is a blanket term for various mystical initiatory religions, sects and knowledge schools, which were most prominent in the first few centuries CE. It is also applied to modern revivals of these groups and, sometimes, by analogy to all religious movements based on secret knowledge gnosis, thus can lead to confusion.

The occult nature of gnostic teaching (as seen from a modern viewpoint) and the fact that much of the material relating to the schools comprising Gnosticism has traditionally come from critiques by orthodox Christians make it difficult to be precise about early Christian gnostic systems. Irenaeus (Adversus Haereses) described several different schools of 2nd century gnosticism in disparaging and often sarcastic detail while contrasting them with Christianity, to their detriment. Nevertheless, most discussion of gnosticism relied heavily on Irenaeus and other heresiologists; in fairness to investigators, this was not by choice, but because of a simple lack of alternative sources.

This state of affairs continued from antiquity through to modern times; in 1945, however, there was a chance discovery of a cache of 4th-century gnostic texts in Nag Hammadi, Egypt. The texts, which had been sealed inside earthen jars, were discovered by a local man called Mohammed Ali. He at first was afraid to open the jars, as he believed they might contain an evil spirit or djinn, and that opening a jar might release it. When he overcame his fear and returned home with the texts his mother, possessed of a similar fear, burned several of the texts. The remaining manuscripts, now known as the Nag Hammadi library, allowed for the study of apparently gnostic texts at first hand for the first time since the 4th century. The translation of the texts into English was completed in 1977; other modern languages followed. This has immensely clarified more recent discussions of gnosticism in Antiquity, though many would agree that the topic still remains a murky one.

At the same time, modern gnosticism has continued to develop, from origins in the Occultism of the 19th century. Thus "gnosticism" is also applied to many modern sects where only initiates have access to arcana. However, there has always been a great deal of diversity within gnosticism and modern gnostic doctrines sometimes have little to do with ancient gnosticism; the application of the antiquated term to these distinctly modern movements, far from being a clarification of the nature of gnosticism, further occludes its true nature. In fact, it may be argued that the unfortunate vagueness of the term 'gnosticism' allows modern sects - which actually bear little resemblance to ancient gnosticism beyond the superficial - to easily appropriate the term, thereby implying an inheritance of a supposed 'gnostic tradition' in order to add theological and historical weight to their own views.

I realize that Gnosticism must be a 'blanket' Religious following with many individualized sub-divisions, and I wondered how many of you associate with the description above (any of the above beliefs that don't apply to you, and if there are others that do so, then I'd like to hear about those).

my my, what an inquisitive mind someone carries

[michel]

Originally Posted by Mike182

my my, what an inquisitive mind someone carries

Sorry, what is that supposed to mean?

[greatcalgarian]

Another link on Gnostic if anyone is interested:
http://www.gnosis.org/
The society:
http://www.gnosis.org/gnostsoc/gnostsoc.htm
The introduction:
http://www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm
GNOSTICISM IS THE TEACHING based on Gnosis, the knowledge of transcendence arrived at by way of interior, intuitive means. Although Gnosticism thus rests on personal religious experience, it is a mistake to assume all such experience results in Gnostic recognitions. It is nearer the truth to say that Gnosticism expresses a specific religious experience, an experience that does not lend itself to the language of theology or philosophy, but which is instead closely affinitized to, and expresses itself through, the medium of myth. Indeed, one finds that most Gnostic scriptures take the forms of myths. The term “myth” should not here be taken to mean “stories that are not true”, but rather, that the truths embodied in these myths are of a different order from the dogmas of theology or the statements of philosophy.

[greatcalgarian]

And this is a great introduction from PBS:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ry/pagels.html

The discovery and translation of the Nag Hammadi library, completed in the 1970's, has provided impetus to a major re-evaluation of early Christian history and the nature of Gnosticism. Readers unfamiliar with this history may wish to review the brief Introduction to Gnosticism and the Nag Hammadi Library provided here, as well as an excerpt from Elaine Pagels' excellent popular introduction to the Nag Hammadi texts, The Gnostic Gospels.

The Gnosis has been persecuted as heretics by the Paul/Catholic

But those who wrote and circulated these texts did not regard themselves as "heretics. Most of the writings use Christian terminology, unmistakable related to a Jewish heritage. Many claim to offer traditions about Jesus that are secret, hidden from "the many" who constitute what, in the second century, came to be called the "catholic church." These Christians are now called gnostics, from the Greek word gnosis, usually translated as "knowledge." For as those who claim to know nothing about ultimate reality are called agnostic (literally, "not knowing"), the person who does claim to know such things is called gnostic ("knowing"). But gnosis is not primarily rational knowledge. The Greek language distinguishes between scientific or reflective knowledge ("He knows mathematics") and knowing through observation or experience ("He knows me"), which is gnosis. As the gnostics use the term, we could translate it as "insight," for gnosis involves an intuitive process of knowing oneself. And to know oneself, they claimed, is to know human nature and human destiny. According to the gnostic teacher Theodotus, writing in Asia Minor (c. 140-160), the gnostic is one has come to understand who we were, and what we have become; where we were... whither we are hastening; from what we are being released; what birth is, and what is rebirth.

[YmirGF]

Wow. "Astral projection". Michel I have not even thought of the term in decades. Hehe.

I suspect the reason for the Gnosticism link on Wiki is that when one has an Out of Body experience, there is often, not always, a "gnosis" that occurs within the individual. The first thing that occurs to one in an out of body experience is that they are wide awake, but NOT in their body. Instantly one realizes this fundamental truth that they are quite obviously NOT the body they thought they were. Frankly, you cannot conceive it without doing it. Nothing, no idea, can prepare you for what it FEELS like to look down at your sleeping body. It is a real stunner and usually quite thrilling. This should not freak people out that much as they leave their bodies every night when they are asleep.

[Halcyon]

Hey Mich, thanks for the interest again

Well, i'll start off by saying you are right, Gnosticism is a blanket term. In fact, when looked at in a most technical way, there is no such religion as Gnosticism.

What we call Gnosticism boils down to some basic theological ideas;
1. That God is within us, and without (everywhere else). He/She is not an external being as portrayed in, for example, the Abrahamic religions.
2. We can know this 'real' God through Gnosis. Gnosis is divine knowledge, but it is similar to insight or enlightenment, its not knowledge in the common sense, it cannot be expressed in words. We can however attempt to express Gnosis to others through allegory, hence all the myths.
3. The material world hinders rather than helps our understanding of God, we must detach ourselves from the day to day issues encountered in the physical world, to become one with the the ultimate One.

These fairly simple concepts can be, and were, applied to any and all religions. Hence we had Christian Gnostics, Islamic Gnostics and Pagan Gnostics; as well as several other religions built up from a base of Gnostic thought, such as Manichaeanism.

As said in the article you posted, Gnostic and Gnosticism have over the ages become taboo words linked with heresy and evil. Modern systems of religious thought, often systems of magick and occult learning have adopted the terms. I assume they do so as the terms imply some kind of secret knowledge which the organisation believes that they possess. They are not what i would call Gnostic however.

I also disagree with the association of Gnosticism with an elite group, or a knowledge which only initiates may acquire. The basis of ancient and modern Gnosticism is that anyone can gain Gnosis and become one with God. No clergy (intermediates) required.
This point in fact, led to the downfall of the Gnostic thought in ancient times. A catholic church created by Rome, with a hierarchy of clergy, (led by greed for power and money) felt threatened by the idea of any old Joe on the street becoming close to God through his own merits. Thus the Gnostics were exterminated, no matter if they were Christian, Pagan or Manichaen.

From a personal opinion (since you asked-ish) i believe Gnosticism is the next 'evolutionary' step religion will take.
In the east we have Taoism and Buddhism, both evolving from spirit centric religions - Hinduism for Buddhism, and i can only assume some kind of Shinto/Animism-like background for Taoism (but i'm probably very wrong). Combining these two eastern philosophies will result in what i believe modern Gnosticism would have been like, had it not been exterminated.
Johannes (Meister) Eckhart held similar beliefs to modern Gnostic (and Buddhist/Taoist) thought, despite being a devote Dominican theologian. I believe had his thoughts been adopted by the Christian Church, instead of being accused of heresy and then hushed up, that current Christianity would essentially be modern Gnosticism.

Now i realise somemof these ideas are probably offensive to many people on these forums, but they are only my thoughts, i'm not espousing them as truth.

Anyhoo, hope that was helpful, not sure it was...

[michel]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Hey Mich, thanks for the interest again

<-----------------------------snip---------------------------->
Anyhoo, hope that was helpful, not sure it was...