Are Muslims "Saved"? (Jesus, salvation, hell, church)

[Feathers in Hair]

Originally Posted by johnnys4life

To worship a man or a statue instead of the living God, how could that be anything but idol worship? It is not the same as Christian worship since Jesus and God the Father are one. Our God, therefore, I cannot imagine that He is not jealous over those who pray to Buddha, even if they do some good in the world.

I just wanted to gently check this statement, since it puzzles me. I don't think that anyone has argued that someone is praying to a man or a statue. In fact, couldn't the same thing be said for choosing to see the Trinity as...well, a Trinity? How is anyones' concept of god more or less 'living' than another persons? Isn't Spirit/ Goddess/ God secure enough in themselves to be not jealous over how They are worshipped? By implying that the Christian God becomes angry when when He is held sacred as posessing horns, an elephant trunk, being a spider, having three hundred legs, or actually being *insert gasp here* a She, I think that is doing any religion that chooses to believe this of their diety a great disservice.

[Mister Emu]

I think that is doing any religion that chooses to believe this of their diety a great disservice.

Well God sent gave the Ten commandments to Moses, which one clearly states not to worship anything other than Him.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by johnnys4life

I am finding it a bit difficult to believe that the Catholic church believes as you do.

1281 Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized (cf. LG 16).

This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.....

Peace,
Scott

[Scott1]

j4l,

Well, we were getting close, now you've run away with things....

First things, first:

Had a lot of fun looking all of this up, actually, thank you for giving me an excuse to.

You are quite welcome...... that's kinda the point of all this.

As far as I have heard, the belief that all gods are the same is more of a unitarian or a new age thing than a Christian one.

Now it is clear you just don't understand what I am writing......... there is ONLY ONE GOD......... others that worship God differently than we do or think that God is something else ARE WRONG (in my opinion).......... but just because they worship God (as you and I understand him) and have not come to the light that is Jesus Christ, I just don't think that they are going to hell.......... get it? I don't believe in New Age garbage or anything of the sort..... .

In answer to your question, yes I believe I have access to the Holy Spirit too.

Never said you didn't......... go back and re-read my post......... we ALL have the Holy Spirit as baptized Christians, but there is a big difference in the power of that Spirit....

So what about now, do I preach lies, hatred?

I think we should end this thread here.......... you are getting too upset....... remember, YOU asked the questions, and now that you are getting answers you don't understand you put up a strawman like this......

Peace be with you,
Scott

[johnnys4life]

Originally Posted by SOGFPP

j4l,

Well, we were getting close, now you've run away with things....

On the contrary, I think I know a lot more clearly what you are saying here, and how it parallels the teachings of the Catholic church. I may not agree 100%, but I have certainly learned something. Thank you.

Originally Posted by SOGFPP

Now it is clear you just don't understand what I am writing......... there is ONLY ONE GOD......... others that worship God differently than we do or think that God is something else ARE WRONG (in my opinion).......... but just because they worship God (as you and I understand him) and have not come to the light that is Jesus Christ, I just don't think that they are going to hell.......... get it? I don't believe in New Age garbage or anything of the sort..... .

Well I get where you are coming from now at least, I am still not sure what to think, really. I was always taught the Bible is the inspired living word of God, and so I mostly base my opion on that. My point was just that I don't see reason not to preach the gospel to people in that circumstance. And that's where the Catholic church and I differ hugely.

Originally Posted by SOGFPP

Never said you didn't......... go back and re-read my post......... we ALL have the Holy Spirit as baptized Christians, but there is a big difference in the power of that Spirit....

What I understood of what you said, and maybe I'm wrong because I don't get the Catholic perspective on this quite yet, was that I am not qualified to talk about the Bible because I do not have the same Holy Spirit as Jesus had. Well, unless there are 2 different Holy Spirits, or 2 different levels of the gift of the Holy Spirit, then I don't see how you could say I do have it and yet I don't. But I will find out more about what Catholics actually believe on that on my own some way I suppose.

[quote=SOGFPP]
I think we should end this thread here......... [quote=SOGFPP] Gee....okay. If that's what you wanna do. It's gotta end some time.

Originally Posted by SOGFPP

you are getting too upset....... ....

Not a bit. Just stating my case. I only asked if I was lying because as you know no one who is lying can be speaking by the Holy Spirit.

Originally Posted by SOGFPP

now that you are getting answers you don't understand you put up a strawman like this...... ....

In the first place, I am glad to get answers I don't understand, that gives me the challenge of trying to understand them. It's quite interesting. And in the second place, what's a strawman? Lol, maybe I'm out of it but I've never heard that word before except maybe in The Wizard of Oz.
I guess I am on my own for the rest of my questions, which is alright.
So, peace to you too then Scott. Thanks for all the fine debate. You seem like a decent enough person. And umm, keep following that yellow brick road. Lol.

Johnny's girl

[Scott1]

My point was just that I don't see reason not to preach the gospel to people in that circumstance. And that's where the Catholic church and I differ hugely.

One final point........... I believe (Catholics believe) the Gospel should be preached to all and in all circumstances........ I never said that we don't.
There is a big difference between giving someone the Good News and telling them they are going to hell......... I hope you come to realize that.

FYI...... a "strawman" is when you state your own opinion contrary to the facts provided and debate as if the other person stated it as a fact.

By the way, I am happy to keep answering questions, provided you are not getting upset...... I am just worried that you were...... it's a Christian thing... I am sure you understand ....

Peace,
Scott

[Ronald]

Originally Posted by SOGFPP

Notice how kindly Ronald can sin......
Lie #1 The the point of this thread is that I believe MUSLIMS can be saved....... pay attention before you chime in.
Lie #2 Never said or implied that Ronald....... your lies are a fine example of "THE WAY".

Sheesh...... I am praying for you........

Scott, what did I transgress, your law? Just how did I sin? Who is the liar?
You might read what you post! Maybe you didn't intend to imply that only those of your faith were going to heaven! But you in fact did!
When you change your name to Rex, you can rule the forum!
The Rightwing Christian Republicans and yourself are very fast and loose with the truth as you see it. Both really live up to Yeshua's "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Love your kindness. Thank you, for the prayers you promised. I for you, likewise, for sure.

[booboo]

SOGFPP,

Hi,

I have a question for you. You say that according to Our Holy Catholic Church, anybody who does not know the Church but is inspired by Grace is saved.

Good deal

My question is this, someone who knows about the Church, blesses the Church, may even help the Church, but does not subject him/herself to the Church. The person may agree with Church tenets that they are truth, but does not act on all principles. May not attend Church and hold confessions, though may do other things. May even not be a Christian according to The Holy Church's definition. Though still blesses it and believes in its authority, but does not subject oneself to it and remain under whatever other religion, though does not do anything the Holy Church finds unlawful.

What is the judgement of that person? Is the person saved, though s/he knows the Church and acts according to many principles, but not all. Yet, believes in the authority of the Holy Catholic Church, but does not subject oneself to it?

Thanks

[Scott1]

Ronald,