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  #1  
Old 11-04-2005, 01:50 AM
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Default "I Am that I Am". = Wrong; Google Ad = Funny

Am I the only one that finds this funny??



Shemos (Exodus) 3:14 וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים אֶל-מֹשֶׁה, אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה; וַיֹּאמֶר, כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, אֶהְיֶה, שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם

Eheyeh asher Eheyeh. Now the ad by google renders this as, "I Am that I Am". One must wonder why they translate it in the present tense when it should be, "I will Be as I will Be." - FUTURE tense.

I demand answers google

Okay, rant over...
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2005, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binyamin
Shemos (Exodus) 3:14 וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים אֶל-מֹשֶׁה, אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה; וַיֹּאמֶר, כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, אֶהְיֶה, שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם

Eheyeh asher Eheyeh. Now the ad by google renders this as, "I Am that I Am". One must wonder why they translate it in the present tense when it should be, "I will Be as I will Be." - FUTURE tense.

I demand answers google
While I would not presume to speak for Google ...

Quote:
"I-Will-Be-Who-I-Will-Be" is the most plausible construction of the Hebrew, though the middle word, 'asher, could easily mean "what" rather than "who", and the common rendering of "I-Am-That-I-Am" cannot be excluded. ("Will" is used here rather than "shall" because the Hebrew sounds like an affirmation with emphasis, not just a declaration.) Since the tense system of Biblical Hebrew bu no means corresponds to that of modern English, it is also perfectly possible to construe this as "I Am He Who Endures".

- The Five Books of Moses by Robert Alter
Quote:
I am who I am. (Or: "I shall be who I shall be." The imperfect verb here is not limited to present of future time.)

- Commentary on the Torah by Richard Elliott Friedman
One of the functions of Orthodoxy is to remove, or at least minimize, ambiguity, but the resulting certainty is, in my opinion, more illusory than real.

I forgive Google.
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Old 11-04-2005, 08:40 AM
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(Rotherham) 14 And God said unto Moses, I Will Become whatsoever I please, And he said—Thus, shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, I Will Become hath sent me unto you.

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Old 11-04-2005, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOGCALLER
(Rotherham) 14 And God said unto Moses, I Will Become whatsoever I please, And he said—Thus, shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, I Will Become hath sent me unto you.
Do you have a point that you'd like to share?
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Last edited by Jayhawker Soule; 11-04-2005 at 08:52 AM.
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  #5  
Old 11-04-2005, 09:10 AM
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Re HOGCALLER's Rotherham:

HERALDS OF CHRISTIAN UNITY

Being Brief Biographical Sketches of Some Pioneers of the Restoration Movement.

Joseph Bryant Rotherham

ON a beautiful English summer evening in the year 1909, the writer sat on the lawn at the home of J. George Rotherham at Catford, London, in pleasant and profitable conversation with William Durban, an able minister of the gospel, who had become identified with the Restoration Movement in that great city, and Joseph Bryant Rotherham, the eminent Bible translator. It was an evening never to be forgotten.

Doubtless the ablest Bible scholar yet produced by Churches of Christ in Great Britain is the subject of this sketch. His ability as such was recognised by many outside our own ranks, among whom may be mentioned C. H. Spurgeon, Dr. C. D. Ginsburg, Dr. Westcott, Dr. J. W. Thirtle, Dr. G. Campbell Morgan.

J. B. Rotherham was born in the county of Norfolk in the year 1828. His father was a most acceptable local preacher among the Wesleyans, rendering service in that capacity for more than forty years. It was at the services and Sunday school of that church at Feltwell in Norfolk that Joseph received his first serious religious impressions, and made his first confession of the Christ.

Feelings.

In the orthodox way young Rotherham "sought and found peace." After a year he entered a period of darkness and doubt, caused, as he saw in after years, through depending on his feelings, instead of the promises of God. After nearly two years in this condition he once more entered upon a period of satisfaction, possibly due, so he thought himself in later life, to improved health.

Of the teachers and leaders he had while in association with the Wesleyan body he spoke in terms of affection and reverence, although some of the teaching he received was defective.

While yet in his teens he commenced to preach, using as a text for his first sermon Philippians 3:8. By the time he was twenty years of age he was filling a number of preaching appointments, on one occasion walking ten miles, preaching twice, and then walking back in time to attend the evening service in Ipswich.

The Ministry.

In 1850 he was appointed to assist a Wesleyan minister in Manchester, and while there was examined as to his fitness for the ministry. His first circuit appointment was to Woolwich. In his next circuit--Stockton-on-Tees--he commenced in earnest the study of Greek, and also started to read up on the subject of Christian baptism. His wife, who was the daughter of a Baptist, felt sure as to the result of this reading, and she proved to be right.

Just about this time at Hartlepool he picked up in a bookseller's shop a copy of "The Millennial Harbinger," which was then edited by Mr. James Wallis, of Nottingham. He was deeply interested, and having borrowed the book, read that night as long as his candle gave him light. He was profoundly moved by the articles therein by Alexander Campbell.

On returning home he was baptised by the Baptist minister at Stockton--that was in the year 1853. His wife followed in that act of obedience to Christ shortly afterwards.

Among the Baptists.

After supplying the pulpit of a Baptist church in the Midlands he became pastor of a Particular Baptist church in Wem, Salop. It was while here that what he had read in "The Millennial Harbinger" began to bear fruit. He became convinced that according to the New Testament baptism was "a command with a promise." In consequence of this in his preaching and teaching he stressed baptism more than was usual by Baptist ministers.

While here he came into contact with a small church seeking the restoration of New Testament Christianity which met in Shrewsbury, and he invited a Mr. Francis Hill, who was then laboring as an evangelist with that church, to preach in his pulpit at Wem. As a result the young Baptist minister became "an object of ministerial attention" and inquiry. A visit to Mr. John Davis, of Mollington, followed, and J. B. Rotherham was led to throw in his lot with the congregations of Christians now generally known as Churches of Christ. It was this same John Davis who influenced J.B.R. to write a series of articles for "The Millennial Harbinger" on "The Holy Spirit." These articles appeared in that periodical during 1855.

Evangelistic Work.

Arrangements were soon made for Bro. Rotherham to labor as an evangelist. He labored in Wales with Edward Evans as a companion. In their meetings it was usual for Bro. Evans to preach in Welsh, and then Bro. Rotherham followed with a discourse in English. This was followed by a campaign in Manchester looking to the establishment of a church there. In this effort, which was commenced on July 1, 1855, he labored with David King, Francis Hill and George Sinclair. Birmingham followed Manchester, and then came a season in Scotland in which he worked with Charles Abercrombie. His efforts as an evangelist giving his whole time to the work came to an end in 1868, when he was forty years of age. But his greatest period of usefulness then began.

Literary Work.

J. B. Rotherham now obtained work as "publisher's editor" with a firm in London in which he continued for some six years. Then he became "press corrector" with another London firm, in which position he continued for about thirty-one years. In the evenings he labored in his great work of translating, and ultimately was able to publish his Emphasised New Testament, and later his Emphasised Bible. In this tremendous task he has placed the Christian world in debt to him, for Bible students everywhere are helped in their investigations by this work.

But this did not exhaust his efforts, for he was able also to issue "Studies in the Epistle to the Hebrews" and "Christian Ministry besides a number of pamphlets. But possibly the work which comes next to the "Emphasised Bible" in importance is his "Studies in the Psalms." The author was past eighty before the work was completed, and it was not published until after his death. It is worthy of note that the impulse to attempt this work came from the Westminster Bible school which has been conducted by Dr. G. Campbell Morgan for some years, at Westminster chapel, on Friday nights. The aim of the work in the language of the author is "to induce readers of the Psalms to become students."

The last published work to came from the pen of J. B. Rotherham was "Let us Keep the Feast." In this we have the mature decisions concerning the Lord's Supper of one who had been for long years a disciple of Christ, and who, in his experience, had come into close touch with the Eternal. .

After Fifty-five Years.

In the year 1909 he wrote a small pamphlet on "The Disciples or Churches of Christ: A Review, Appreciation and Forecast." Although during the years Bro. Rotherham had modified some of his views, he still held fast to the essentials of the plea advocated by those with whom he had been associated. In that pamphlet he said, "The two chief aims are Reform and Reunion. Reform in the sense of a return to the simplicity and purity of Christianity as it was at the first, and Reunion in the sense of regaining and manifesting the unity amongst Christ's followers, for which he himself prayed." And again: "Brethren! the world--religious, profane and heathen--needs what, under God, we can give; can give, perhaps, if we be humbly wise, better than any religious community under the sun."

Closing Days.

For some years Mr. Rotherham had been a member of the church at New Cross, London, and he took his part in the public ministry of that congregation. On Lord's day, December 19, 1909, he spoke with vigor to the delight of those present at both the morning and evening services of that church. The following Lord's day he was present at both services again, but on New Year's eve he contracted a cold, and a few days later it became apparent that the end was drawing near. He passed away in "quiet peacefulness" in his eighty-second year.

His body was laid to rest in Hither Green Cemetery on January 10, and that evening, at a service, Dr. J. W. Thirtle, author of "Old Testament Problems" and other books, gave an appreciative address in which he spoke of his first acquaintance with J.B.R., and of the subsequent correspondence they had with regard to the Psalms and other matters.

One of the members of the New Cross church said of the subject of our sketch that "in regularity and punctuality at the meetings of the church he was a model to younger members."

He was a great soul, a great teacher, a reverent disciple, one consecrated to the Master's service, and through whom much was done for the cause of the Redeemer.

- see Thomas Hagger
While Rotherham might well have been a very nice Christian apologist, I see absolutely nothing to suggest language skill worthy of note. But I have certainly done nothing approaching a serious investigation. So, we'll just have to wait to see if our HOGCALLER has anything useful to add.
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Old 11-04-2005, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deut. 10:19
One of the functions of Orthodoxy is to remove, or at least minimize, ambiguity, but the resulting certainty is, in my opinion, more illusory than real.
I'll be honest, I don't understand that sentance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deut. 10:19
I forgive Google.
I guess my point was people are 100% sure it is "I Am that I Am", I guarentee you 90% of the forum didn't know it was future. It's the same with several verses of the TNK that some people parade around in order to draw the conclusion that Yeshua was something that, in my opinion, he wasn't. For example, some people choose to ignore the blantent grammatical problem's in the translation to insist that Isaiah 53 is talking about Yeshua.
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Old 11-04-2005, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binyamin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duet. 10:19
One of the functions of Orthodoxy is to remove, or at least minimize, ambiguity, but the resulting certainty is, in my opinion, more illusory than real.
I'll be honest, I don't understand that sentance.
Perhaps that's because you're so certain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Binyamin
I guess my point was people are 100% sure it is "I Am that I Am", I guarentee you 90% of the forum didn't know it was future.
Nor do I. As I said: you are the certain one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Binyamin
For example, some people choose to ignore the blantent grammatical problem's in the translation to insist that Isaiah 53 is talking about Yeshua.
I believe that we've discussed 7:14 before.
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Old 11-04-2005, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binyamin
I'll be honest, I don't understand that sentance.

I guess my point was people are 100% sure it is "I Am that I Am", I guarentee you 90% of the forum didn't know it was future. It's the same with several verses of the TNK that some people parade around in order to draw the conclusion that Yeshua was something that, in my opinion, he wasn't. For example, some people choose to ignore the blantent grammatical problem's in the translation to insist that Isaiah 53 is talking about Yeshua.
Who was Isaiah referring to? That's not the only passage in the Bible that references a prophecy regarding the Messiah.
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Old 11-06-2005, 07:11 PM
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