Lucifer

[Christy]

Originally Posted by pah

Genesis 3 specifically calls the tempter a serpent who was more crafty that any of the other animals and, even in comdemnation, Genesis 3:14-15, refers to the creature as a seppant who hereafter will crawl on it's belly and cast "enmity' on humankind. That sure sounds like the snakes of today.

Now this, literally taken is not Satan or Lucifer so it must be considered, if your believe Christy's assertion, that the character, at least, is mythological. and a symbol of Satan and perhaps Satan himself is mythological.

Probably more proper in another thread, I beleive that is conclusive that the creation story is completely myth.

-pah-

Because you claim to be an atheist, Pah, I would not expect that you know the Bible very well.

Yes, temptation came by way of a serpent, but this serpent was not like the serpents of today. He was, in fact, the power of evil very present in the world today - you may call him the devil, or satan, or lucifer or any name you wish...you may even call him non-existent if you are feeling especially "brave." Fact is, he does exist.

[Pah]

Originally Posted by Christy

Because you claim to be an atheist, Pah, I would not expect that you know the Bible very well.

Yes, temptation came by way of a serpent, but this serpent was not like the serpents of today. He was, in fact, the power of evil very present in the world today - you may call him the devil, or satan, or lucifer or any name you wish...you may even call him non-existent if you are feeling especially "brave." Fact is, he does exist.

You are agreed that the serpent was not on its belly before the fruit was bitten and was, after God found Adam, forced to its belly as a curse from God.- that much should be clear to you.

I'll assume that when God made the heavens before the 6th day (Genesis 2:1-2) he populated the heavens and, further, that one of that population was Satan. There is an indication in Genesis 2: 4-5 that heaven was created prior to the earth being completed. Now you may not make that assumption, as I did, about the timing of earth and heaven and deny the populating of the heavens. If so, you are saying that Satan and the rest of the heavenly host did not exist until after the 7th day - that the serpent was created along with the other animals and later became Satan.(for Genesis 1:24-25 and Genesis 2: 19 both place the creation of animals prior to the 7th day and both Genesis 3:1 and Genesis 3: 14-15 both indicate an animal). This serpent, after the curse, was capable of having it's head crushed. The evidence for the serpent being an animal is fairly extensive for being in a short 3 chapters of Genesis. The evidence for the serpent actually being Satan himself is non-existent (whoever heard that Satan can have his head crushed by humankind)

There is biblical evidence that Satan was not the serpent. The serpent was cursed to be on its belly - right? Yet here in Zechariah 3:1 we have Satan standing Do you really think that the Satan of Job went back and forth on the earth on his belly?

Do you have biblical evidence that the serpent in Genesis was Satan?

-pah-

[anders]

In the first place, the Bible mentions no "Lucifer". On this name, look at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09410a.htm.

Regarding the Devil/Satan/etc., the Fourth Lateran Council states, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm that "the Devil and the other demons were created by God good in their nature but they by themselves have made themselves evil." They evidently originally were some kind of angels.

According to a recent poll, only 2.7% of all Norwegians believe in hell as a place for eternal torment. Belief in the Devil varies from 12% in Sweden to 66% in the USA. (S)he should get a new marketing department.

[LittleNipper]

Yes, the name LUCIFER is in the OLD TESTAMENT. It is found in Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O "Lucifer" (or "DAY STAR"). DAY STAR and Lucifer mean the same thing.

I think Satan is very happy to reap the fields of the unsuspecting.

[painted wolf]

I thought that that verce was in referance to King Nebucanezer...

Lucifer as also called the 'morning star' or the 'son of the morning'... Jesus is refered to as such in Rev.22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Does this mean that Jesus is Lucifer?

anyway Lucifer is a latin word not a Hebrew word and was more than likely the result of a mistranslation during the middle ages.

The modern King James and subsiquent copies of the bible were created from previous translations of the Hebrew texts.

wa:do

[Ceridwen018]

I think Satan is very happy to reap the fields of the unsuspecting.

Or, rather, god is very happy, because god created satan...

[Christy]

Anders - Thank you for your research and the Catholic site. They are much appreciated!

[HelpMe]

Originally Posted by Christy

Are Lucifer and Satan the same being? I always thought they were, but I may be wrong.

i believe satan means opposer, and i believe lucifer was his name.some people held this same name as well.

joshua and jesus have grammatically speaking were the same exact name in hebrew/greek, translators wouldn't want you to know this because as you may see, some would confuse the two of them.

http://www.eliyah.com/nameson.htm

--$

[Christy]

There is an interesting movie out: The Exorcist. It is a prequel to the original Exorcist that came out in 1974 - 30 years ago. Pretty good flick, too, if you like to be scared sometimes!

Anyway, the reason this movie ties in with this thread is that it takes place in Africa at the exact place (according to the movie) where Satan landed when he was thrown from Heaven! How about that for an interesting plot?