The Book of Mormon (moral, Creator, bible, moral, God)

[Scott1]

DeepShadow,

Thanks for your reply.

Please stay and talk with me about this. I'll look back through yours and Corban's discussions and post my views. Hopefully I'll resemble your LDS friends a little.

Thanks for the offer..... don't worry about me going anywhere soon, this is my home away from home!

I just want to know the truth without arrogance...... disagreement does not have to imply disrespect....... I look forward to hearing your views about this discussion, and learning about your faith. (you are a member of the LDS church, right?.... I don't remember seeing that in your member ID)

Scott

[Feathers in Hair]

Originally Posted by DianJo

They also believe something about - If you're a Mormon "in good standing" (provided you've tithed correctly)

I've been in a Christian church where people would actually monitor how much everyone tithed, so please don't infer this is 'a Mormon' thing.

Originally Posted by DianJo

that when you die, you will become a god, like God, and have your own planet to rule over! How whacked is that! They also believe in a plurality of gods - like paganism?!

Because Heaven forfend one should be like a pagan! *shudders at the very idea*

[DeepShadow]

(All right, everyone, I've spent several weeks praying and researching for the best way to answer this, but Latter-Day-Saints use many terms--particularly "sin," "hell," and "damned"--differently than how they are commonly understood. Discussing these issues properly requires a serious paradigm shift. Rather than write a book here covering all the possible questions you might have, I'll just give you a short answer and hope I can answer any questions that result. This is a discussion group, after all.)

Do these statements reflect the beliefs of the modern LDS church? In a word, no. More to the point, few if any of these reflected the beliefs of the church at the time they were written. Dan said these statements were taken out of context, and that's probably true, but it must be more than that, because one wonders what kind of context could possibly render them anything other than hate-mongering. Before dealing with the statements individually, I'd like to address the topic in general as best I can.

The LDS church has a clearly defined group of people authorized to speak on behalf of the church--namely Apostles and First Presidencies. Here's what some of them have said regarding other churches:

Gordon B. Hinckley, “We recognize the good in all churches. We recognize the value of religion generally. We say to everyone: live the teachings which you have received from your church. We invite you to come and learn from us, to see if we can add to those teachings and enhance your life and your understanding of things sacred and divine. Now we work with people of other faiths on common causes, many of them across the world. We recognize theological differences. We believe that we can disagree theologically without being disagreeable, and we hope to do so. We have been rather careful about surrendering in any way our doctrinal standards, anything of that kind as part of an ecumenical effort, but we certainly have worked with people, and do work with people, and want to work with other groups in tackling common social problems, things of that kind which are so much in need of attention these days throughout the world” (interview with Lawrence Spicer, London News Service, 28 Aug. 1995).

Gordon B. Hinckley, Remarks at Pioneer Day Commemoration Concert:
"This city and state have now become the home of many people of great diversity in their backgrounds, beliefs, and religious persuasions. I plead with our people to welcome them, to befriend them, to mingle with them, to associate with them in the promulgation of good causes."

"As I have said before, we must not be clannish. We must never adopt a holier-than-thou attitude. We must not be self-righteous. We must be magnanimous and open and friendly. We can keep our faith. We can practice our religion. We can cherish our method of worship without being offensive to others. I take this occasion to plead for a spirit of tolerance and neighborliness, of friendship and love toward those of other faiths."

Joseph Smith, Articles of Faith 1:11 "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

Brigham Young: “To be adverse to Gentiles [as the word was then used], because they are Gentiles, or Jews, because they are Jews, is in direct opposition to the genius of our religion. It matters not what a man’s creed is, whether it be Catholic, or Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, Quaker, or Jew, he will receive kindness and friendship from us” (quoted in Preston Nibley, Brigham Young: The Man and His Work [1936], 416).

Although they don't speak for the church authoritatively, quite a few others have expressed opinions in similar directions that have been published in church magazines:
L. Harold Wright, “We Made Friends from Other Faiths,” Ensign, June 1976, 52
http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.d...0faiths%20.htm

Gerald E. Jones, “Respect for Other People’s Beliefs,” Ensign, Oct. 1977, 69
http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.d...%20beliefs.htm

Looking at your examples, neither Brigham H. Roberts nor Bruce R. McConkie was an Apostle of the LDS church when their books were written. As such, even if they said these things, it is opinion only. Whiw he was an Apostle at one point, Orson Pratt was excommunicated for teaching false doctrine--not a pristine source of information. This book you reference is only slightly less suspect than The Seer, which Orson wrote during his period of apostasy. The Taylor quote is a doozy, because it appears to come from the mouth of a prophet, but there's one serious problem: the Journal of Discourses was a collection of books written by well-meaning but unauthorized members who wrote down as much as they could to send overseas to those who didn't hear the prophet/Apostles speak. Not only were they uninspired in what to copy, but the books are riddled with transcription errors, misquotes, and statements of questionable origin. Select portions of the books have been included in LDS study manuals with the approval of the First Presidency (and are therefore fair game for critics) but the rest remain apocryphal in the extreme.

I've got lots more, but this should be enough to get some feedback, and I'll be able to direct my comments better after that.

[Scott1]

Thanks for this Deep.

This is the best explaination I have gotten in two years of asking similar questions.

I knew this forum would be the place to get answers! Hooray for ReligiousForums.com!

Thanks again,
Scott

[Ronald]

The biggest impression ever made by a commercial on me, was from the Morman church, it ended with these words, "Forgive him, it will teach him a lesson."

A real message of hate. Yeah, right!!!!

[DeepShadow]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595104489,00.html

Just thought I'd drop the above link in here. It's about the new Doubleday edition of the Book of Mormon. This is the very first secular printing of the Book of Mormon, and one of the people involved says it may be the most significant event in the world of LDS printin since E.B. Grandin printed printed the first 5000 copies.