John 1:1 Discussion (Jesus, Messiah, Torah, gospel, creation)

[Bryan X]

Hey people,

Let's have a discussion on John 1:1, shall we? I know this verse(and lots others) is quoted to prove that Christ is God. Let's have a debate on those who believe that Christ is God and those who believe Christ is not God using John 1:1. You can use other verses as well but let's try to stick to John 1:1 as best we can. I know it's only decent if I break the ice first, but I'd like someone to do the head start instead.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ...and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

[Ceridwen018]

Well, I think it's pretty black and white. This verse clearly says that Jesus was god made flesh...what are the alternative interpretations?

[dan]

John 1:1 is a verse that has been corrupted (along with many segments of John) by neoplatonic thought. John wrote his letters during a time when this philosophy was running rampant through the church. His teachings were quickly diluted by the ever prevelant Greek philosophies that invaded the church after the Gospel was turned over to the Gentiles. The lack of stable authority at that time only helped to perpetuate the platonic influence. St. Augustine later cemented platonic teaching into the church. The Catholic idea of the trinity is only a branch of this esoteric enigmatic breed of philosophy that so entertains the lugubriously self-righteous.

[Linus]

So dan, what do you think about John 1:1? Does it have any relevence at all?

[Ronald]

There are two aspects of John's writing.
#1. We need to know alittle about Hebrew thought and language.
#2. John was a Kabbalist, SOD level of interpretation.
Compare Genesis 1, John 1:1-5, both are almost the same.
Yeshua is the Word of God, was with God and was God.
God spoke the Word and it came into being, everything that was made was made by him God by the words from his mouth. Torah = Word of God = Yeshua born of woman, the word made flesh and dwelt among them. Aleph Bet first born of creation, God spoke the Torah by the Words from his Aleph Bet. All of the terms and words are in both Testaments, meaning the same thing and pointing to Yeshua Messiah sent into the world as the lamb of God, to redeem the Elect from sin.

[Ceridwen018]

John was a Kabbalist

*raised eyebrows*

Ronald, do I even want to ask how you presume to know this?

[dan]

Christ was with God in the beginning, and Christ shares all the atributes and perfections of God, including the title occasionally; but Christ and God are two different people and always have been.

[Bryan X]

Originally Posted by dan

Christ was with God in the beginning, and Christ shares all the atributes and perfections of God, including the title occasionally; but Christ and God are two different people and always have been.

Shares? What do you mean shares? Isn't it true that God performed all those miracles through Christ? But does that mean Christ is God? Well, I don't think so.

Christ and God are 2 [very] different people('beings' is a much better term, I'd rather use)...yes, that's true. That statement only proves that since Christ differs from God, then He is not God. By the way, that seems a little hypocritical to me how you say that Christ shares the same attributes of God and then say that they are 2 different beings.

Oh my, this thread just might go a long way.

[Christ Michael]

Jesus taught his apostles the truth regarding the persons of the Paradise Trinity, but they thought he spoke figuratively and symbolically. Having been nurtured in Hebraic monotheism, they found it difficult to entertain any belief that seemed to conflict with their dominating concept of Yahweh. And the early Christians inherited the Hebraic prejudice against the Trinity concept.

The first Trinity of Christianity was proclaimed at Antioch and consisted of God, his Word, and his Wisdom. Paul knew of the Paradise Trinity of Father, Son, and Spirit, but he seldom preached about it and made mention thereof in only a few of his letters to the newly forming churches. Even then, as did his fellow apostles,Paul confused Jesus, the Creator Son of the local universe, with the Second Person of Deity, the Eternal Son of Paradise.

The Christian concept of the Trinity, which began to gain recognition near the close of the first century after Christ, was comprised of the Universal Father, the Creator Son of Nebadon, ( Jesus ) and the Divine Minister of Salvington--Mother Spirit ( Holy Ghost )of the local universe and creative consort of the Creator Son.

Not since the times of Jesus has the factual identity of the Paradise Trinity been known on Urantia (except by a few individuals to whom it was especially revealed) until its presentation in these revelatory disclosures. But though the Christian concept of the Trinity erred in fact, it was practically true with respect to spiritual relationships. Only in its philosophic implications and cosmological consequences did this concept suffer embarrassment: It has been difficult for many who are cosmic minded to believe that the Second Person of Deity, the second member of an infinite Trinity, once dwelt on Urantia; and while in spirit this is true, in actuality it is not a fact. The Michael Creators ( Jesus Christs )fully embody the divinity of the Eternal Son, but they are not the absolute personality.


[from The Urantia Book]

P.S. Jesus CHRIST is A SON of God, an offspring between The Universal Father and The Eternal Son but he is God as well because he is the Creator of this PHYSICAL time-space creation in which we live.

Cheers

[Jayhawker Soule]

Why not defer regurgitating your inane little cult snippets until after you explain your cult's obnoxious racial attitudes?