John 1:1 Discussion (Jesus, Messiah, Torah, gospel, creation)

[Ronald]

Originally Posted by Ceridwen018

*raised eyebrows*

Ronald, do I even want to ask how you presume to know this?

You will have to tell me that!

Of the Gospels, John writes on a different level, anyone should see that, as he starts his book " In the beginning/Berishis was the Torah/word, the Torahwas with God, the Torah was God. Already way out there, spiritual! The only one of the four speaking on the spiritual level/hidden meaning/SOD level of understanding. Then look at Revealations so far out pastors and ministers shy away from teaching from it.
The old time Hebrew Kabbalah, not the Maddonna Ka-bla-blah!

[Christ Michael]

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

Why not defer regurgitating your inane little cult snippets until after you explain your cult's obnoxious racial attitudes?

I had already answered that question in the thread "Evil" thus:

Had you read the whole thing, and UNDERSTOOD it, you would see that it is more along the lines in my signature. If you have a problem with it I suggest you take it up with God !!! Good luck !!!!

If you don't understand what I am insinuating please copy this post and take it to your grade 2 teacher and ask for an explanation !! In the mean time, if you have anything to add to this discussion about Jesus being God, please do, otherwise don't pollute this thread with your childlish remarks !!



Cheers

[Linus]

Why are we only going by John 1:1? I'm just curious. There are other passages that shed light on this subject. Why limit it with one passage? If there is a specific reason please let me know.

[Bryan X]

Originally Posted by Linus

Why are we only going by John 1:1? I'm just curious. There are other passages that shed light on this subject. Why limit it with one passage? If there is a specific reason please let me know.

I said this in the beginning of my post:

Let's have a debate on those who believe that Christ is God and those who believe Christ is not God using John 1:1. You can use other verses as well but let's try to stick to John 1:1 as best we can.

[Linus]

In that case what about John 10:30?

John 10:30 - I and My Father are one

[Bryan X]

Linus, do you believe in the 'Trinity' doctrine?

[Linus]

You mean the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

[dan]

Originally Posted by Linus

In that case what about John 10:30?

John 10:30 - I and My Father are one

How about John 17? In His intercessory prayer Christ prays that all His followers become one, as He and the Father are one. Do you think He wants us all to morph into one giant uber-Christian? Christ and the Father are one in perfection, desire and will.

If I get a perfect score on a test and my buddy does too, does that mean our scores (being the same in every way) are of the same essence? Are they the same score, two uncreates yet one uncreate? Two incomprehensibles and yet one incomprehensible? Does only one of us get a grade because we must share the score, being only one score?

This is the Nicean litany that leads to the esoteric jumble of vernacular that is the Catholic idea of the Trinity.

[Scott1]

Hiya Bryan X,

Originally Posted by Bryan X

Let's have a discussion on John 1:1, shall we? I know this verse(and lots others) is quoted to prove that Christ is God. Let's have a debate on those who believe that Christ is God and those who believe Christ is not God using John 1:1. You can use other verses as well but let's try to stick to John 1:1 as best we can. I know it's only decent if I break the ice first, but I'd like someone to do the head start instead.

Well, I know you would like to stick with just John 1:1, but that's kinda a silly objective. The divinity of Christ, or most things for that matter, can not be "defined" by using one verse in or out of context.

As far as Scripture clearly showing the divinity of Christ, there are several ways to "prove" it. For example:

Old and New Testament Parallels of God the Father and God the Son:
Exodus 3:14 - God says "I AM who I AM" - John 8:58 - Jesus says "Before Abraham was, I AM" in reference to Himself.
Deut. 4:2; 12:32 - the Lord God commands that we not add or take away from His word - Rev. 22:18-19 - Jesus so commands us not to add or take away from His word.

Deut. 32:39; 1 Sam. 2:6 - the Lord kills and makes alive again and raises up - John 5:21 - the Son raises and gives life.

Deut. 32:39 - neither is there any that can deliver out of God's hand - John 10:28 - nor shall any pluck out of Jesus' hand.

Deut. 32:43 - rejoice, ye heavens, with Him, and let all the angels of God worship Him - Heb. 1:6 - the "Him" is Jesus the Son.

2 Sam. 22:3 - God is the horn of salvation - Luke 1:68-69 - Jesus is the horn of salvation.

Jesus Christ Claims to be God
John 10:30 - Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus' statement in John 14:28, "the Father is greater than I," cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus' statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.
John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is "the Son of God."

John 10:38; 14:10 - "the Father is in me and I am in the Father" means the Father and Son are equal.

John 12:45 - Jesus says, "He who sees Me sees Him who sent Me." God the Father is equal to God the Son.


And so on and so on..............

Originally Posted by dan

If I get a perfect score on a test and my buddy does too, does that mean our scores (being the same in every way) are of the same essence?

Hoo boy, dan...... you gotta explain to me how someone can be PART-God....

Peace,
Scott

[Bryan X]

Originally Posted by Linus

You mean the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

Yes, that.