Catholic Q/A (priests, birth control, elders, doctrine, church)

[Katholish]

Yes, actually I can very easily explain why none of the translations that you quoted mention priest or presbyter, because if you look at my quote, you will see that the quote is from the 22nd verse, and yet every translation that you just listed is verse 21.

[Zero Faith]

I have a question for you:

The mystery of transubstantiation is, I find, often confused amongst Catholics and non-Catholics alike. Does the Catholic faith believe that the host (bread and wine) at communion is literally and miraculously transformed into the body and blood of Christ, or is it merely symbolic?

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Katholish

Yes, actually I can very easily explain why none of the translations that you quoted mention priest or presbyter, because if you look at my quote, you will see that the quote is from the 22nd verse, and yet every translation that you just listed is verse 21.

Actually, all of my translations number it as verse 22. But upon further investigation, I found that verse 23 says, "Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust."

First of all, why do the difference in the numbers of the verses occur? Do the Catholics simply number their Bible diferently?

And second, my trasnlations say "elders", not priests. Would you not agree thast these are different positions? What is the explanation?

[Mr Spinkles]

I can field that one, Zero Faith. Catholics believe that it is not "just symbolic". They also believe that the bread and wine are not "literally" the blood and body of Jesus...in other words, Jesus' DNA can't be extracted from them. Catholics believe that the bread and wine DO transform into Jesus....just not in a physical sense...in a spiritual one. :P

[Ceridwen018]

*clears throat* Actually, thats not entirely true. The Catechism of the Catholic church states that Catholics are indeed supposed to believe that the host and wine make a physical change. Why can't samples of flesh and blood be extracted for study? Well you see, they only change for the short period of time during the Eucharist...and then they change back. Of course, taking samples during the Eucharist is just too scandalous to even think about, so it seems we've got ourselves a bit of a pickle going on here.

I would say that catholics are the pros when it comes to covering bases.

[Katholish]

Zero Faith, Mr. Sprinkles, and Ceridwen,

The Catholic Church teaches that the bread and wine used at Mass truly become the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thus He is substantially present, though the Eucharist retains the accidents of Bread.

Because in transubstantiation, the Sacred Host retains the accidents of bread, one could not take a DNA sample. However, there have been Eucharistic miracles where the consecrated Host has not only been substantially changed, but also physically in that it has taken the accidents of human flesh and blood. There have been several such miracles all over the world and throughout history.

Even when the accidents of bread remain though, it is not true that the True and Substantial Presence of Christ remains for only a little while during the Mass, as Ceridwen suggested, but this Host becomes the substance of Christ's Body, and hence the substance does not "disapear" after a certain amount of time, it does not revert back into bread.

So Zero Faith, to answer you question, the Church believes that the bread ceases to be bread and truly and literally becomes the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ, and is not just symbolic.

[Katholish]

Linus, I have never seen anything like that before. Very interesting. I found the source of the problem which occurs eariler in the chapter.

Douay-Rheims Version, Acts 14:
6 They, understanding it, fled to Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and to the whole country round about: and were there preaching the gospel.

King James Version, Acts 14:
6 They were ware of it, and fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and unto the region that lieth round about:
7 And there they preached the gospel.

St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate (382 - 405AD) (Bold added), Acts 14:
14:6 intellegentes confugerunt ad civitates Lycaoniae Lystram et Derben et universam in circuitu regionem et ibi evangelizantes erant
14:7 et quidam vir in Lystris infirmus pedibus sedebat claudus ex utero matris suae qui numquam ambulaverat

The Catholic numbering system follows the translation by Jerome at the turn of the 5th Century. I bolded the term "evangelizantes" because it is the word for gospel, and shows that the referrence is in verse 6 and not 7. Since this is a new thing for me, I don't know why the King James has it numbered as it does, nor do I really know why Jerome has it numbered this way, I have never looked into the numbering of verses before.

Since I had found an online Vulgate, I though that I would also look up verse 22 in question to see how it renders "priest" or "elder".

Vulgate Version, Acts 14 (bold added):
14:22 et cum constituissent illis per singulas ecclesias presbyteros et orassent cum ieiunationibus commendaverunt eos Domino in quem crediderunt

I highlighted the word presbyteros for obvious reasons.

[Linus]

Very interesting stuff indeed. But why do you translate your Bible from Latin and not the original languagein which it was written, Greek? It would seem that you would get a more acurate translation directly from it instead of from greek to latin to english.

[Scott1]

I get back from vacation what do I see?????????

Hello and welcome Katholish! Great posts....... keep on defending the Truth!

Peace,
Scott

[dan]

Originally Posted by Linus

Very interesting stuff indeed. But why do you translate your Bible from Latin and not the original languagein which it was written, Greek? It would seem that you would get a more acurate translation directly from it instead of from greek to latin to english.

Well, it would be helpful to have it in the original Aramaic. Even the Greek is a translation from one language to another. Too bad the oldest existing manuscripts are from 300 years after it was all written.