Can anyone give a thorough breakdown and explanation of JOHN 3:16 (Jesus, ritual)

[hebrew]

John 3:16 is a stmblingblock scripture. It may sound ridiculous, but it is. Give me your opinion on what is means.

[dan]

OK, think of this parable: a man (a young farmer) goes into a town to look for a loan. He borrows a large amount of money from a man with the promise that he'll pay it back on a certain schedule. He goes to work on the farm, but finds himself easily distracted by the cares of the world; his friends, neighboors and other activities impede his progress. In the back of his mind he is constantly cognizant of the debt he incurred, but he pushes it ever further back in his conscience, thinking the day will never come when he is called upon to make good.

Occasionaly he makes token payments to the debtor, promising that it is all he has and that he will do his best to pay off his debt. The day of the closure of his loan comes and he is nowhere near able to pay it. He begs for mercy, the debtor growls that justice must be done. It seems that they are at an impass, until someone steps forward to offer a way to reconcile mercy and justice. A man offers to pay the man's debt if he will serve him. The debtor must accept; it's the only way to serve justice. And mercy is also appeased.

We are the debtees. The debtor is the law of God and the intercessor is Christ. God loves us so much that He payed the debt that we have incurred through sin. We receive the freedom if we fulfill the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel: Faith, Repentence, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins and the Gift of the holy Ghost. We are then indebted to Christ . His mercy covers us (atonement means to cover tightly or to embrace intimately) from justice without undermining it.

So how does everlasting life fit into this? Well, we as humans are made up of two things, a spirit and a body. Our body is mortal and will die, as did Christ's, but our spirit is immortal. Physical death is an inevitability that even the Son of God had to endure, but He did it to break the chains that bind down the dead. Through His resurrection all may follow. Physical death is thus overcome. Spiritual death is the seperation the our spirits from God. Justice will not allow us be in His presene while we are in sin. Christ took all our sins upon Himself and paid that price so that we might return to live with God. Why did Christ say "eloi, eloi, lamsabacthana"? Which is (incorrectly) translated, "why hast thou forsaken me?" in the Bible? He really is saying He understands that He must be seperated from God for the moment because He was in that moment, quite literally, the single most sinfull being that had ever existed. In taking our sins He ensures our victory over spiritual death. With spiritual and physical death overcome we can return to live with God for the eternities. Thus:

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[Lightkeeper]

I take the Bible inwardly, so my take on this is we gain our salvation by finding the Christ (the eternal) within us. In order to find that we have to be willing to give up that which is nearest and dearest to us.

[Ardhanariswar]

really good explanation dan and lightkeeper.

[Ronald]

Originally Posted by dan

but our spirit is immortal.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Don't you find it strange God forgot to tell Jesus(Mt.25:46) and Jesus forgot to tell Paul?(1Cor. 15:51-54)
I suppose God fotgot it too, as He revealed to John the reason for the Lamb of God. (Jn. 1:29)
The Greek concept of immortal soul is the most ungody of the unbiblical doctrines.
The spirit, God gave to all men, goes back to God at death. Ecc.12:7

Immortal Soul/Spirit cannot be found in any good Bible.

John 3:16 is the Way to immortality/everlasting life.

[dan]

Originally Posted by Ronald

Don't you find it strange God forgot to tell Jesus(Mt.25:46) and Jesus forgot to tell Paul?(1Cor. 15:51-54)
I suppose God fotgot it too, as He revealed to John the reason for the Lamb of God. (Jn. 1:29)
The Greek concept of immortal soul is the most ungody of the unbiblical doctrines.
The spirit, God gave to all men, goes back to God at death. Ecc.12:7

Immortal Soul/Spirit cannot be found in any good Bible.

John 3:16 is the Way to immortality/everlasting life.

You sound like a Jehovah's Witness. Neoplatonism and gnosticism have nothing to do with creating the doctrine of the immortal soul. Our souls are energy and can be neither created nor destroyed. As God used matter already in existence to create the earth, He used intelligences that already existed to organize spirits to inhabit bodies.

Mt. 25:46 makes a better case for an independent spirit than against it. If the "soul" ceases to exist after seperation from the body how is it to be punished eternally?

Corinthians refers to the mortal body, not to the spirit. The whole chapter is about the resurrection (the reunion of the spirit with the body).

Ecc. 12:7 is a weak one. We return to the presence of God, but we are not assimilated into Him as we lose our identities, as you infer. Ecc. 9:5 is the one the J.W.s always use. I guess if you were a DUB you'd have known that one. It works a whole lot better (unless of course you understand what the scripture says in its original Hebrew).

I could show you a lot of different scriptures that show the existence of the spirit independent of the body, but I'll just choose one. The parable of the rich man and lazarus. Their spirits rest in two different places after their deaths. One spirit rests with God, the other in Hell. Their spirits have survived their bodies. They are immortal. You may say that's just a parable. Very well, then you'll be calling Christ a liar. He never taught a parable that had false doctrine in it (unless you judge this to be false doctrine and thus judge Jesus the Christ to be a liar). Christ says the spirits outlive the bodies, as do I. They pre-date the bodies, too.

The premortal existence of the spirit was well known to the early church fathers until the Catholic chruch started reconciling church doctrine with the philosophies of men. St. Thomas Aquinas is responsible for having wedded Aristotelian philosophy to the church. Aristotle believed in only one existence (no spirit world) so the ideas about spirits and pre-mortal existence had to go (ironic that they chose human philosophy over true doctrine without exception). You think my idea is Greek and apostate when it's actually yours that is Aristotelian and apostate. Read Jeremiah 1:5. God knew him before his body was formed. How did He know him? He knew his spirit before He put it into his body, of course.

Foreordination is another proof that we existed before we were born. It's sometimes called "predestination" in the New Testament, but that's an error in translation and nothing more.

I would point out all the many deuterocanonical scriptures that support my doctrine, but you'll shriek and howl in objection because the Catholic church has lulled you (unconsciously) into this conviction that what they say is scripture is scripture and everyone else be damned.

[Ronald]

If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, BAFFLE THEM WITH YOUR BS.
YOU MUST BE ONE WHO WEARS A BELT WITH YOUR NAME ON THE BACK.

[dan]

No, I don't have a belt with my name on the back.

[Runt]

***MOD POST***

Just a friendly reminder that Religious Forums is a place of respect and that all posts should remain on topic.

Thank you.