Wives, be submissive to your Husbands (priest, church, recall, bible)

[Ceridwen018]

Originally Posted by Linus

Should women submit when there is a conflict? Yes. But the men should be open enough and love their wives enough to listen to what they have to say, take it to heart, and then make a decision.

By doing this, the man is giving his wife no more rights and say-so than he would his own child. I would hope that at the very least my own mother would genuinely listen to, and consider my opinions. To do the opposite would be to blatantly disrespect someone as a person.

At the heasrt of what you're saying Linus, though you may not realize it, you are insinuating that women are not as capable of making decisions as men are. You are saying that women must satisfy themselves with having their opinions merely "considered" by the man, because ultimately, the man knows best.

Personally, I think that women are just as capable of making household decision, and oftentimes know better than their husbands.

This is one of those passages that perplex me. Was the author writing to the customs of the times?

This is a very good point, NetDoc. Obviously, in Jesus' time, women were not as educated as men, etc., and therefore the man often would "know better", and would be able to function more smoothly without being pestered by their childish wives.

Now, however, women are just as educated as men, if not more. Also, it is not uncommon for the wife to be the primary breadwinner these days. If I ever end up in a situation like that, I'll be damned if my husband is going to tell me what to do with my own money!

[Malus 12:9]

I'm taking a huge risk arguing with femminism, but oh well.

Thw phrase you have selected may seem "chauvinist", but if you look at the
rest of what you quoted

"Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them" (Colossians 3:18-19).

So, I will make an equally simple complaint. Is it saying all men are harsh with their wives?
LOL

The Bible is not sexist, if anything else. You will find that it says many things in equality:

(Ephesians 5:20-33).However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband"

Ecclestiastes 9:9"Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun-- all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun" (Ecclestiastes 9:9).

Complaint about nothing.

[EnhancedSpirit]

I think we are reading too much into the word submissive. The verse I quoted says that we are to submit to each other. And when you love each other this is easy to do. This is not in regards to woman being man's subordinate.

[Malus 12:9]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

I think we are reading too much into the word submissive. The verse I quoted says that we are to submit to each other. And when you love each other this is easy to do. This is not in regards to woman being man's subordinate.

Sorry . I was going from Ceridwen018's post.

[CaptainXeroid]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

I think we are reading too much into the word submissive. The verse I quoted says that we are to submit to each other. And when you love each other this is easy to do. This is not in regards to woman being man's subordinate.

Excellent point. I think a lot of people get unecessarily bent out of shape at the word 'submissive'. It doesn't mean to be a spineless doormat nor does it give men license to lord over women but rather calls men to serve women in the way the Christ served his disciples.

[Malus 12:9]

Originally Posted by CaptainXeroid

Excellent point. I think a lot of people get unecessarily bent out of shape at the word 'submissive'. It doesn't mean to be a spineless doormat nor does it give men license to lord over women but rather calls men to serve women in the way the Christ served his disciples.

Frubal to thee, Xeroid. The word taken out of context, can cause people to think
odd things..

[painted wolf]

ah but the use of the word submissive has been taken and used as the justification for many a social ill.

Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

every thing, voting, sex, money, everything. Women were untill historically very recently property of thier husbands, they had no rights save those that the man gave them.

At least in western society... In many Native American cultures a 'submissive' wife was a bad thing. Women held a lot of influence and power in society. We did all the heavy chores, we owned the lodges and all the belongings except the mans personal items, We helped make the important decisions and we were the ones by whom liniage was traced.

Marrage is a partnership, founded in equality. True men and women tradtionally had different roles to play owing to the nature of hunter-gathering lifestyle, but in the end it was realized that if one dominated the other then the family would suffer as a whole.

wa:do

[Malus 12:9]

Originally Posted by painted wolf

ah but the use of the word submissive has been taken and used as the justification for many a social ill.

What are you implying there PWolf? What be this Social Ill you speak of?

Submissive as in spanking and domination? That is not ill.

[painted wolf]

lack of rights to vote, travel, own property, seek divorce, raise children in case of seperation, work, dress, education, I could go on if you like.

Remember that many of these rights are historically new... Women got the right to vote nationally in the USA in 1920, only the right to work thanks to the world wars when men were scarce. Such rights are today taken for granted, but they have been given and taken back many times in the cource of history... for instance women could vote just prior to the formation of the USA the right to vote was repealed starting with New York in 1777. By 1807 women lost the right to vote in every state, the last hold out was New Jersey.

wa:do

[Malus 12:9]

I'll probably get flamed by an angry mob of torch wielding femminists for this,
but oh well.

PWolf, if equal rights were unfair back then, why are you (not you in specific)
complaining about it today?