Problems with the Roman Catholic Church (Jesus, priests, ritual, punishment)

[I Panicked! At the Disco]

I have been studying differant denominations, and have discovered that the Catholic church includes rules, regulations, and activities in their service that are mentioned no where in the Bible. Here are some:

According to the book written by a Roman Catholic Plain Facts for Fair Minds, tradition is held as the highest authority in the Catholic church, even above the Bible. I conclude for myself that many unbiblical practices are done in the Roman Catholic Church (see below). However, we see in Matthew 15:3, 6-9, Traditions of men make void the word of God. We also read in Deuteronomy 4:2 and Isaiah 8:20 that we are not to add onto or take away from the scripture.

In The Catholic Dictionary on pg. 82, we find that "the Bible is not to be read by all; The Pope forbids it; all must not read it". However, we know that scriptures are to be read and understood by everyone. Ephesians 3:4, John 5:39, Acts 17:11 and I Peter 2:2.

According to Faith of our Fathers on pg. 78, Peter is said to have established the first [Catholic] church; he was the first pope and his successors were popes. Peter denied in I Peter 2:4-6 that the church was built by him or on him. Jesus is the builder and head of the church, Matthew 16:18. In I Peter 5:1 and Acts 15: 13-19, we see that Peter is not superior to the other apostles. Peter was also a married man (Matthew 8:14 & I Corinthians 9:5) and popes are not allowed to marry.

A priest is considered "another Christ", being the means of access between a sinner and God. But I Peter 2:5-9 and Revelation 1:5-6 tells us that all Christians are 'priests' who have access to God through Christ.

Catholics believe in Purgatory, which is supposedly where the dead go to suffer punishment until they can be purified. According to Hebrews 9:27, prayers of saints and others cannot change our destiny after death. Purgatory is never mentioned in the Bible.

The Roman Catholic church began the Crusades, which were basically wars against Musims and sometimes Jews or Protestants- just people with other faiths in general. Matthew 5:38-45 tells us to love our enemies and pray for them.

According to the Manual of Christian Doctrine pg. 444, Catholics are allowed to lie if by doing so it furthers their religion. Exodus 20, Colossians 3:9, and Ephesians 4:15 all clearly forbid lying.

Sprinkling is sufficent for a Catholic baptism, as well as immersion. Romans 6:4 describes baptism as a burial. Acts 22:16 describes baptism as a washing. Also, baptism is a Greek word which is translated to "dip, plunge or submerge."

According to Catholics, infants should recieve baptism.However only believers who have repented of their sins and confessed their faith in Christ are biblically qualified to be baptized according to Romans 10:10, Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:15-16.

According to Catholic religion, marriage is void unless performed by a Catholic priest? Yet where was the Catholic priest at the wedding Jesus attended? The Catholic religion wasn't begun until the year 606 by Boniface III.

Catholics also pray and genereally worship Mary. But where does the Bible or Jesus command us to worship Mary?

I'm sure I have left a lot out. Please note that all of the books quoted from, excluding the Bible, are official publications of the Catholic church, and were written by notable Catholic authors.

[Southerngal]

I think your right the catholics definantly have some problems to work out. I just never realised there were so many. Your referances are excellant.

[Lloyd]

There's too many things up there so I'm not going to one by one, but if I really felt up to it I could go through each of them and show how an oversimplification can lead to gross misunderstanding of Catholicism. For example, Every orthodox Catholic believes that it was Christ who established the Church through Peter not Peter establishing the Church himself. That's been Catholic dogma for centuries. Are you sure you read it right?

As for the priest thing...The Catholic Church recognizes two priesthoods, the ministerial priesthood, which is the one everybody is familiar with and the priesthood of all believers. They just have different functions and authorities.

Also, what are the dates on those books? I know that when education was rare, the laity were discouraged from reading the Bible but that is far from the truth nowadays. Not a year would pass in Catholic Schools that somebody wouldn't give every student a Bible.

[Master Vigil]

1. The traditions of the catholic church (so they claim) are not traditions of men, but of god. Declared to them through the pope by the holy spirit, and thus by god.

2. It is true in the old days (before luther) that the bible was only read by priests. But that has since been changed. We can not condemn the church for what they have noticed, and changed.

3. Peter is the rock, but Catholics claim that Jesus was the true "starter" of the church. Unlike many denominations who were started by men years after. And the pope not marrying is a disciplinary concept, and has much more meaning than just "Peter could marry, why can't popes or priests marry?"

4. I have never heard of priests being "another christ." They are simply priests, it is their job. Just like a carpenter, or a lawyer. Are you fit to be a lawyer, or a professional basketball player? No, so those equipped take the job. They are "like christ." Not "another christ."

5. Perhaps purgatory is another term for when the saints prayers change your fate after death? Of course there is much more to it than that. But certainly because it is not talked about in the bible doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Computers aren't talked about either, but your using one aren't you?

6. Men are imperfect, men also wrote the bible. The bible is also imperfect, and again... we cannot judge a religion based on the past. But we can see how they are changing it. In fact, the Roman Catholic religion is the largest charity provider in the world, and they hold some of the largest comparative religion dialogues. Much unlike some denominations who believe followers of other faiths will burn in hell. Catholic tradition now says that all faiths include truth. I see much more love in that, than in thinking others will burn in hell. Don't you?

7. Is it possible that one lies, for the greator good? Have you ever lied? I'm sure you have, oh my. Are you going to hell now?

8. Perhaps baptism is simply a symbolic ritual. It is what happens to the soul that matters. Not how wet you get.

9. Poor little buggers, they can't get baptised to rid them of original sin because they are too young. Talk about loving everyone!!

10. Marriage is one of the 7 sacraments, yes. But it being "void" or not is a totally legal issue. And it was started before the Council of Nicaea in 325, and there were popes before the council. It wasn't made an "official religion" of rome until this council however. So clearly, it was around WAY before boniface.

11. Catholics to not pray to, or worship mary. The honor, and respect her. Being the mother of jesus, I believe she earned it don't you? They "ask" her to pray for them, this goes for the saints as well. Have you ever asked someone to pray for you? If so, you are doing the same thing they are. They are just asking someone who is closer to jesus and god than you could ever be.

So, in short. your claims are clearly misunderstood, misjudged, and hopefully people will stop making these assumptions about the Catholic church without doing some research first.

Scott may add, or correct me. But I believe I have made my point.

[Mr Spinkles]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

1. The traditions of the catholic church (so they claim) are not traditions of men, but of god. Declared to them through the pope by the holy spirit, and thus by god.

Damn, I was just about to say that.

Someone get Scott in here.

[SK2005]

Wow, okay.

Everything has been misunderstood, and taken way way way out of proportion.
The first and I guess the only thing that I will say is that WE DO NOT WORSHIP MARY!!!!!!!!! I don't think that many people will ever understand that. Sure we have statues, so do capital buildings and you have pictures of loved ones at home, do you worship them too?

I would say that I am pretty offended by this post. Let's all just point out what is wrong with everything and what is wrong with everybody.

5 more points for christianity working together! (unfortunately it's in the wrong direction)

I would like to thank MV.

[Mister Emu]

I would say you did a good job MV.

Also note, that I am a Southern Baptist, though there are some things I am not in agreement with, the RCC gets my seal of approval (though I doubt anyone cares )

I used to have many of the same misconceptions as well, but patience and wisdom(not mine ) helped remedy my ignorance to, if not agree, understand the teachings.

[Master Vigil]

My post is not only defending the Catholic religion, but knowledge. It seems MANY people have these misunderstandings about the Catholic religion, and it seems that they are actually being taught these lies from their ministers. And of course they take their minister's word for it, because of course, they are the minister. But it makes me wonder, as well as it should make you wonder, what other completely false information are they telling their followers? And why don't the followers do research for themselves to find out or not?

[SK2005]

Because society says to be lazy and have everthing brought to us on a platter. Why do research and actually find the truth, nah, I'd rather be ignorant....
I think that many ignorant people are too ignorant to look for their own information.

[michel]

Christiangirl0909, Namaste.

Well, you set some feathers flying - and I am not surprised. The content of your post is unfortunately innacurate, and I certainly cannot do more than echo MasterV's and Mr Spinkles replies.

A debate is one thing, but to 'drop' a pile of what you consider to be inconsistencies in other's faith the way you did is a little 'confrontational'; perhaps next time you want to make a post like this, you would be well to think of the feelings for those who believe in what you knock.