John 3:13

[Pegg]

Originally Posted by F0uad

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

Didn't Jesus(pbuh) came from a womb ? Remember the resurrection didn't occur yet according the story so how did Jesus(pbuh) come from heaven as the verse states?

Jesus was originally an angel in heaven. Thats why he said that he had come down from heaven.

His life was transfered to the womb of Mary so that he would not be tainted by the sin of mankind. So he is not a son of Adam, but one of the Sons of God as mentioned in the scriptures.... the Sons of God refer to the Angels in heaven. This is why he is also called the 'son of God'

One of his statements which aroused the anger of the jews was
John 8:56 Abraham YOUR father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.” 57 Therefore the Jews said to him: “You are not yet fifty years old, and still you have seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” 59 Therefore they picked up stones to hurl [them] at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple.
Here he is speaking of his life before becoming human. To the jews, that was crazy talk because he stood before them as a man... but the reality is that he had no human father for his life did not originate with mankind....it originated in heaven with God.

[chinu]

Originally Posted by F0uad

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

Didn't Jesus(pbuh) came from a womb ? Remember the resurrection didn't occur yet according the story so how did Jesus(pbuh) come from heaven as the verse states?

Yes, jesus came from a womb, infact we all came from a womb, But.. jesus came from a womb in a connection with "Word" to which we all are not.

What is this "Word" ?
This "Word" is a connection between God and humanbody, this "Word" (Divine Sound) is inside all of us but we all are disconnected from it.

[savagewind]

Jesus was originally an angel in heaven. Thats why he said that he had come down from heaven

It might be wrong to call 'Jesus' an "angel". Because The Word WHO became Jehoshua was present before any of the angels so it is more accurate to view The Word as a parent of angels and men. A parent and a child are not the same person so how can the one from whom something is born be considered the same as something that is born?

[F0uad]

So Jesus(pbuh) is god, an angel and man?

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by F0uad

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

Didn't Jesus(pbuh) came from a womb ? Remember the resurrection didn't occur yet according the story so how did Jesus(pbuh) come from heaven as the verse states?

Since Jesus is God Incarnate, God (who was thought to be in heaven) became Incarnate (by being born from a womb).

[InvestigateTruth]

Originally Posted by F0uad

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

Didn't Jesus(pbuh) came from a womb ? Remember the resurrection didn't occur yet according the story so how did Jesus(pbuh) come from heaven as the verse states?

That's because the divine Messengers are like a Mirror Reflecting the divine Reality.

And, Heaven is not a physical place. It is a spritual reality.
So, yes, His physical body was born, but His Spiritual Reality was Heavenly, reflecting the Divine Attributes. So, He said He came from Heaven.
He actually also said, He is in heaven, when at that time He was on earth.

[Pegg]

Originally Posted by F0uad

So Jesus(pbuh) is god, an angel and man?

Some say he is God.... but that is impossible for him to be God Almighty.
And the scriptures do not call him God Almighty EVER. They say he is a god in the sense that he is from heaven....he was a divine being (just as angels are divine beings) before he was sent to the womb of Mary to be born as a human.

[Horrorble]

Originally Posted by Pegg

Some say he is God.... but that is impossible for him to be God Almighty.
And the scriptures do not call him God Almighty EVER. They say he is a god in the sense that he is from heaven....he was a divine being (just as angels are divine beings) before he was sent to the womb of Mary to be born as a human.

Do the Jewish scriptures ever directly describe Jesus' pre-human existence as the first created son of God?

[Pegg]

Originally Posted by Horrorble

Do the Jewish scriptures ever directly describe Jesus' pre-human existence as the first created son of God?

we believe this passage does, yes....

Proverbs 8:22 “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men. 32 “And now, O sons, listen to me; yes, happy are the ones that keep my very ways. 33 Listen to discipline and become wise, and do not show any neglect. 34 Happy is the man that is listening to me by keeping awake at my doors day by day, by watching at the posts of my entrances. 35 For the one finding me will certainly find life, and gets goodwill from Jehovah.

Jesus is said by John to be 'with God in the beginning' JOhn 1:1 "in the beginning was the word and word was with God..."


Some believe this verse refers to Gods wisdom.... however, Gods wisdom is not something he created because that would mean that he did not always have wisdom. So this verse is about an 'individual' who is the 'expression' of Gods wisdom in creation. That first display of Gods wisdom was the creation of an intelligent heavenly being.

[Horrorble]

The verses before talk about Gods wisdom "I help kings to govern" "princes use me to lead" the verses are personifiying wisdom so it does make sense that wisdom says "I was created." How would kings and princes use Jesus before he supposedly came to earth? If its talking about Jesus.