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  #11  
Old 03-05-2013, 04:46 AM
Union Offline
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Originally Posted by D-MITCH777 View Post
A couple of months ago I converted to Islam, but since then I have gone through some trouble with my new faith. Although I still have faith, I find that some times it contradicts with my own Western culture and values.

Things like women's rights, capital punishments for apostates, and other parts of Shariah law go against my beliefs in freedom of religion and expression.

I'm still learning, so if any one could explain these points to me better, I'll be very grateful.
I can see the agony of an innocent heart...
Or a battle between the brain and heart...

This is your high time to identify the real Islam and the distorted Islam . The so called Shariah law practiced and propagated by Shia and Sunni Muslims are not from GOD , the Almighty . Those are mainly generated from Hadeeth literature created about +250 years after the demise of Prophet by the enemies of Islam .

Qur'an is the only source of Islam and all laws should be deduced from it for Islam . Please pay a regular visit in Quranist DIR in this forum , which solely relying on Qur'an only .

And for the remedy of your agony , please visit the following links , you will find how Qur'an is liberal on viewing personal faith and freedom of choice :

Rules of apostasy in Qur'an : don't kill them
Is Male=2 x Female in Qur’an? Re.:Inheritance Distribution
Is Male=2 x Female in Qur’an? Re.:Testimony
Is traditional women Hijab/Burqa/Niaqb authorize by Almighty GOD?
'Hoor' for men in paradise , what about women?

Many more other topics may can help you to realize that the traditional Shariah laws are actually in violation with laws and systems prescribed by Almighty GOD in Qur'an . Please feel free to open any thread in Quranist DIR section if you need to inquire anything .

May ALLAH , the Merciful help your endeavor in learning Islam .

Last edited by Union; 03-05-2013 at 04:50 AM..
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  #12  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:27 PM
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F0uad Offline
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F0uad writes cutesy love poems to frubals, dotting every 'i' with a little happy faceF0uad writes cutesy love poems to frubals, dotting every 'i' with a little happy faceF0uad writes cutesy love poems to frubals, dotting every 'i' with a little happy face
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Originally Posted by Union View Post
I can see the agony of an innocent heart...
Or a battle between the brain and heart...

This is your high time to identify the real Islam and the distorted Islam . The so called Shariah law practiced and propagated by Shia and Sunni Muslims are not from GOD , the Almighty . Those are mainly generated from Hadeeth literature created about +250 years after the demise of Prophet by the enemies of Islam .

Qur'an is the only source of Islam and all laws should be deduced from it for Islam . Please pay a regular visit in Quranist DIR in this forum , which solely relying on Qur'an only .

And for the remedy of your agony , please visit the following links , you will find how Qur'an is liberal on viewing personal faith and freedom of choice :

Rules of apostasy in Qur'an : don't kill them
Is Male=2 x Female in Qur’an? Re.:Inheritance Distribution
Is Male=2 x Female in Qur’an? Re.:Testimony
Is traditional women Hijab/Burqa/Niaqb authorize by Almighty GOD?
'Hoor' for men in paradise , what about women?

Many more other topics may can help you to realize that the traditional Shariah laws are actually in violation with laws and systems prescribed by Almighty GOD in Qur'an . Please feel free to open any thread in Quranist DIR section if you need to inquire anything .

May ALLAH , the Merciful help your endeavor in learning Islam .
You know these kind of posts are very offensive..
You could have just said that you don't agree with the Sunni and Shia sharia and end it there.
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  #13  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:52 PM
Union Offline
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Union says every time your read this, God slaps another frubalUnion says every time your read this, God slaps another frubal
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You know these kind of posts are very offensive..
You could have just said that you don't agree with the Sunni and Shia sharia and end it there.
Your response is uncalled . Let the OP do a research and let him tell me if I commit offense or not .
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  #14  
Old 03-05-2013, 01:31 PM
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Talk about prostylizing
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Allahuma salli ala Muhammadin wa aale Muhammad
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لبيك يا حسين
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  #15  
Old 03-05-2013, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Pastek View Post
Can you explain ? Women have rights in Islam



From my understanding, the one who wants to disbelieve is free to do so.
God guides whom He wants, and this person can come back to God, we never knows what life reserved us.

Also, it was different in the time of the Prophet (saw) because those who disbelieved, rejoined the ennemies.



Like what ?


I think that if you grew up in a western country you can see things differently.
I live abroad too, so i understand what you mean.
But each time i read the Qu'ran, i know it's from God, so i try to understand it.
Like what ?


I think that if you grew up in a western country you can see things differently.
I live abroad too, so i understand what you mean.
But each time i read the Qu'ran, i know it's from God, so i try to understand it.[/quote]

I know that women have certain rights in Islam but things like the testimony of a woman being half that of a man. I can't see the logic behind this.

Dhimmitude is another thing. Why should someone have to pay to believe in? I know that it is for protection, but I think that non-muslims should be able to join the army, and hold public office if they want to.
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  #16  
Old 03-05-2013, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Union View Post
I can see the agony of an innocent heart...
Or a battle between the brain and heart...

This is your high time to identify the real Islam and the distorted Islam . The so called Shariah law practiced and propagated by Shia and Sunni Muslims are not from GOD , the Almighty . Those are mainly generated from Hadeeth literature created about +250 years after the demise of Prophet by the enemies of Islam .

Qur'an is the only source of Islam and all laws should be deduced from it for Islam . Please pay a regular visit in Quranist DIR in this forum , which solely relying on Qur'an only .

And for the remedy of your agony , please visit the following links , you will find how Qur'an is liberal on viewing personal faith and freedom of choice :

Rules of apostasy in Qur'an : don't kill them
Is Male=2 x Female in Qur’an? Re.:Inheritance Distribution
Is Male=2 x Female in Qur’an? Re.:Testimony
Is traditional women Hijab/Burqa/Niaqb authorize by Almighty GOD?
'Hoor' for men in paradise , what about women?

Many more other topics may can help you to realize that the traditional Shariah laws are actually in violation with laws and systems prescribed by Almighty GOD in Qur'an . Please feel free to open any thread in Quranist DIR section if you need to inquire anything .

May ALLAH , the Merciful help your endeavor in learning Islam .
Thanks I'll take a look at the links.
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  #17  
Old 03-05-2013, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-MITCH777 View Post
A couple of months ago I converted to Islam, but since then I have gone through some trouble with my new faith. Although I still have faith, I find that some times it contradicts with my own Western culture and values.

Things like women's rights, capital punishments for apostates, and other parts of Shariah law go against my beliefs in freedom of religion and expression.

I'm still learning, so if any one could explain these points to me better, I'll be very grateful.
Salaam brother. The things you objected to above are not Quranic concepts. They come from other sources. As a Quranist Muslim, I only believe in Quran being from God and Quran being complete. Any added laws are going against Gods instructions. I'm not trying to start a debate. I'm just starting that there are Muslims who don't believe in laws not mentioned in Quran. Peace.

[6:115] And the word of your Lord has been completed with the truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

[16:116] And do not say, as to what your tongues falsely describe: "This is lawful and that is unlawful;" that you seek to invent lies about God. Those who invent lies about God will not succeed.
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  #18  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:45 PM
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F0uad writes cutesy love poems to frubals, dotting every 'i' with a little happy faceF0uad writes cutesy love poems to frubals, dotting every 'i' with a little happy faceF0uad writes cutesy love poems to frubals, dotting every 'i' with a little happy face
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Originally Posted by Union View Post
Your response is uncalled . Let the OP do a research and let him tell me if I commit offense or not .
These words are not offensive at all:


distorted Islam .

The so called Shariah law practiced and propagated by Shia and Sunni Muslims are not from GOD

enemies of Islam
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  #19  
Old 03-05-2013, 07:36 PM
Treks Offline
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Originally Posted by D-MITCH777 View Post
but things like the testimony of a woman being half that of a man.
Isn't that only in terms of business transactions?
From my POV as a non-Muslim I can kind of see the logic if the women at the time the Quran was revealed weren't very literate or educated in math, etc.

Not sure how that translates into today's time in countries where female children are educated in math and in some cases are professionals in business law, etc. They would still need two women to sign, say, a mortgage loan for a house, right?
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  #20  
Old 03-05-2013, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Treks View Post
Isn't that only in terms of business transactions?
From my POV as a non-Muslim I can kind of see the logic if the women at the time the Quran was revealed weren't very literate or educated in math, etc.

Not sure how that translates into today's time in countries where female children are educated in math and in some cases are professionals in business law, etc. They would still need two women to sign, say, a mortgage loan for a house, right?
“Procure two witnesses from among your men; and if two men be
not available, then one man and two women, of such as you like
as witnesses, so that if either of the two women should be in
danger of forgetting, the other may refresh her memory.” (2:283).

Let me try to clarify this in simple points.

1. Islam has taught that Women should not need to appear in court as a general principle when dealing with financial transactions, preference is given that Men who generally handle financial transactions would appear. Islam minimizes that amount of interaction between Women and Males unless they be married, family, or such as a Teacher and Student, etc. If the case is such that there are no Men as witnesses in such a case a Women witness may appear.

2. The verse itself has given the reason for why two Women are needed. It says "so that if either of the two women should be in danger of forgetting, the other may refresh her memory.". When financial transactions are done, it is usually between two Males, when both appear in court they can recall that day, the discussion, where they where, and such factors jog up the memory. In the case of Women they are only secondary witness who are knowledgeable of the transaction, often the wives. Hence, their memory would not be refreshed by a social interaction. For the reason that Women have not been involved socially in the transaction they can falter in memory, a person who did the transaction should generally be able to recall better, especially when speaking with the other party.

3. This verse does not state what has been concluded often from it. Let me exemplify. If a transaction occurs, there is a male witness and two female witness, and one female witness passes away. So when the appear in court the male's testimony doesn't have more strength over the other, having to female witness is a safeguard to ensure that they have not forgotten. If this safeguard is not possible and the judge finds that the testimony of the male witness is faulty while the female witness is strong then he will and must judge in fairness to the female witness. Nowhere does it say that the female has less right, it simply states that they are more likely to forget, not because they are any less than males, simply because they are not the front line of financial transactions in a Islamic society.
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