the anti-semitism in the New Testament thread (Jesus, reject, Moses)

[Lloyd]

What are people's thoughts on this?

I really don't buy the claim that the New Testament writers were anti-semitic. When I think about it the idea anti-semitic doesn't have much meaning in itself. It gets its meaning from people's association of the word with pogroms, the holocaust, al-Qaida, etc. We live in a time when the word 'jew' seems to be going out of usage. I've noticed that people around me try to use 'jewish' instead, primarilly because of the former's association with white supremacy movements. But really, white supremacy is a far cry from early Christian thought. Because of it's 20th century connotations the usage of the word 'anti-semitic' is misleading itself. It gives the impression that there is continuity between these two thought-worlds.

My explanation for the New Testament fervor against "the Jews" is that the writers were profoundly disillusioned with Judaism and its adherents, so much so that they needed to start their own religion. I think that this summed up fairly well in Luke's account of Jesus' entry into Jerusalem


And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
(King James Bible, Luke 19 41-44)


The problem with 'the Jews' isn't that there is something inherently wrong with them, but that the majority of them didn't recognize the "time of thy visitation." Luke 20: 9-19 hits the same theme pretty well. Since you probably don't feel like reaching for your Bible write now, this is a parable in which 'the master' entrusts a vineyard to some tenants. The master sent messengers to collect the master's share of the harvest. The tenants beat them and sent them away. After hearing this the master sends his son who the tenants kill. Because of this the master decides to take the vineyard away from them and decides to give it to others. Once again, there is a lot of feeling here against Jews but it's only against their individual failures as servants of God.

It's pretty ridiculous to claim that the New Testament writers were bigoted against Israel as a whole. At the time of their writing the Church was still more or less dominated by Jews, not to mention that Jesus, Peter, Paul, Mary, Mary Magdalene, etc. were all Jews themselves. The vitriol was aimed at people who rejected Jesus, a group that was predominantly Jewish. Also, wheras in the past the prophets were mostly rejected by Jews and universally rejected by gentiles, in the case of Jesus many gentiles were heeding the Gospel. This creates an interesting situation. In the Old Testament it was the peopel of God (the Jews) against the world, but now with the New Testament it was the people of God (both Gentiles and Jews) against mostly Jews. At this time the Romans were pretty much ignoring the Church. Almost all persecution at the time was coming from Jews, an unprecedented occurence in the history of Judeo-Christianity. It's only natural that the New Testament writers would use this in some dramatic way.

So, that ended up being quite long. Have at it.

[Montalban]

Maybe they were anti-Judaic, (if there's a difference?)

[Quoth The Raven]

I think the term Anti-Judaic (which I think was the term used originally, if the root of this thread is the one I think it is) refers more to being against the religion than against the people themselves. That being the case, you'd be quite correct in thinking that it was religiously based rather than focused on people of particular nationality.

[Ronald]

The writers of the NEW TESTAMENT, were all Jews, the translators who monkeyed with scripture were anti-semites and it shows.

The whole bible is Hebrew! the New Testament does not in any way create a new religion, second and third century Christians do! It is called "Replacement Theology." Phoney as a three dollar bill.

God has never changed! The Hebrews are still his chosen people. God's religion was just opened up to the Gentile convert from Paganism!

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by Ronald

God has never changed!

But we have. We have matured as a society and God treats us differently than he did back in the days of Moses. Just like I can treat my son and daughter differently as they mature.

He reduced the ten commandments down to two, and instead of us offering a yearly sacrifice, he merely asks us to be living sacrifices instead. As I have said before, the biggest problem with living sacrifices is that they keep crawling off of the alter.

Disagreeing with the Jews over the form of their religion does not make one an anti-semite. Wishing them ANY harm (economic, cultural, physical or otherwise) DOES make you an anti-semite. It seems that people are rather quick to play that trump card, especially on those we don't even know. Hate unfortunately is a two way street and seems to feed on itself.

[Montalban]

Originally Posted by lady_lazarus

I think the term Anti-Judaic (which I think was the term used originally, if the root of this thread is the one I think it is) refers more to being against the religion than against the people themselves. That being the case, you'd be quite correct in thinking that it was religiously based rather than focused on people of particular nationality.

I think that, speaking of the peoples of the time, there was little to separete these two concepts.

[Montalban]

Originally Posted by Ronald

The writers of the NEW TESTAMENT, were all Jews, the translators who monkeyed with scripture were anti-semites and it shows.

The whole bible is Hebrew! the New Testament does not in any way create a new religion, second and third century Christians do! It is called "Replacement Theology." Phoney as a three dollar bill.

God has never changed! The Hebrews are still his chosen people. God's religion was just opened up to the Gentile convert from Paganism!

I thought they wrote some in Greek?

[Quoth The Raven]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

As I have said before, the biggest problem with living sacrifices is that they keep crawling off of the alter.

Ah, Netdoc, you need to use pushpins .That keeps the little buggers in place.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

Disagreeing with the Jews over the form of their religion does not make one an anti-semite.

Your clever distinction allows the following ...

• For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals, we should follow the custom of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people. - Council of Nicea
• The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ and for killing God there is no expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christians may never cease vengeance and the Jews must live in servitude forever, God always hated the Jews, so it is incumbent upon all Christian's to hate the Jews. - St John Chrysostom
• The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot who sells the Lord for silver. The Jews can never understand the scriptures, and forever bear the guilt of the death of Jesus. - St Augustine

I take you to be an honest man, Net Doc, so let me ask you a question: Have you ever read any book on the history of antisemitism?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Lloyd

At this time the Romans were pretty much ignoring the Church. Almost all persecution at the time was coming from Jews, an unprecedented occurence in the history of Judeo-Christianity.

From what silly excuse for a history book did you acquire such nonsense?