Man Existed Before He Was Born

[yaddoe]

The Pre-Earth Life
The War in Heaven

- Revelation 12:3-9
“3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”

At one time there was a place for Satan and his followers to dwell in heaven,(Verse 8),
but when they rebelled and made war with heaven they were cast out and could no longer return (Verses 7, 8 and 9)

- Job 38:7
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
- Lucifer means Son of the Morning, this is mentioning before the war in heaven. Notice that the word sang is past tense, this indicates that this is referring to before the war in heaven and before the fall of Satan.

- Jerimiah 1:4-5
“4 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.”

-This indicates Jeremiah existed before he was born.

-Genesis 2: 4-7
“4 ¶These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

-This indicates to me that God created all things spiritually before he created them physically. Comparing this with Jerimiah 1:4-5 I see that God created us spiritually before we were born.


-Hebrews 12:9
“9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?”

-God is the Father of our spirits. I find that to be interesting wording, I have never considered the City of St. George to be the Father of my electricity, or Duracell to be the Father of my batteries. I believe it means something more to be a father to someone. It specifically likens being a Father of our spirit to being a father of our flesh, why should I take it into any other kind of context? Furthermore, God also created all of the plants and animals and their spirits also, but where is one reference where God says that he is the Father of all plant and animal life? There is none.
The real question here is what does it mean when it says God is our Father?

Acts 17: 27-29
“ 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.”
- I think this clarifies quite a bit exactly what it means when it says God is our Father. It means we are his offspring, meaning we are literally his children.
Now looking at this and knowing we were spiritually created before we were born, before the earth was even fully created even as noted from Genesis 2, and comparing it with Job 38:7 we must have been a part of those Sons of God shouting for joy before Satan and his followers rebelled and were cast out.
Ephesians 1:5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Ecclesiasties 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

-Both of these scriptures strongly indicate to me that we were with the Father before we were born. The word return means that our spirits once lived with God before we were born and when we die our spirits return to him.

Ending Point, we were in the War in Heaven, which took place before the foundation of this world.

[outhouse]

Ending Point, we were in the War in Heaven, which took place before the foundation of this world.

do you understand the definition of mythology?

[yaddoe]

Originally Posted by Gjallarhorn

*Deleted Post*

I see this debates the name Lucifer, but my argument went a lot farther than just that one name.

[yaddoe]

Originally Posted by outhouse

do you understand the definition of mythology?

This is a conversation for those who have more faith in the Bible than they do in science.

[PolyHedral]

Originally Posted by yaddoe

This is a conversation for those who have more faith in the Bible than they do in science.

But it'd be hypocritical for them to be here.

[yaddoe]

Note my 2 references came from Job and Revelation referring to the 1/3 part of the stars of heaven. The reference you brought up was in Isiah
Luke 10:18 also mentions the fall of Satan before the foundation of the world.

Here is that one Isaiah verse
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

The big debate you bring up is is this son of the morning being mentioned here the King of Babylon, or Satan. You can take it either way, both interpretations mean that at one time either Satan or the King of Babylon were at some point in time in heaven which is my main point.

[yaddoe]

Originally Posted by PolyHedral

But it'd be hypocritical for them to be here.

Why would it be hypocritical?

Shall I clarify by saying more faith in the Bible than they do in the science that claims that the Bible is wrong?

[outhouse]

Originally Posted by yaddoe

This is a conversation for those who have more faith in the Bible than they do in science.

is credible history now science?

refusing science is one thing

refusing history is another

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by yaddoe

The Pre-Earth Life
The War in Heaven ...

... Ending Point, we were in the War in Heaven, which took place before the foundation of this world.

So your signature reads: "Usually when I ask you a question I am looking for an answer, not a bunch of assumptions." What are you looking for when you present us with a bunch of baseless assumptions?

[yaddoe]

Originally Posted by outhouse

is credible history now science?

refusing science is one thing

refusing history is another

Is that why history books change every day?
Much of what is written in history books come from scientific observation, now if my history book is telling me something different in every new edition then obviously something in the last edition was not exactly credible. Do I have reason to doubt what my history books say about anything that took place more than 5,000 years ago? YES. History can barely tell me about things that took place 200 years ago, why should I believe every little thing they say when they try to tell me how things were 20,000 years ago? I trust God far more than I trust man.