God's responsibility

[tempter]

Judas is said to have been a key part in Jesus' death. Judas has been demonized as evil - a betrayer.
But it was Judas destiny to do what he did. If it wasn't him, then it was to be someone. This points to predestination. So why do so many people want to paint him as evil/bad/wrong when he was simply doing God's work in God's plan?
The responsibility should be God's, not Judas'.

So why does God get a "free pass" on responsibility? Granted, if God is God, no one could force him to take responsibility. But, that doesn't mean we should 'sweep it under the rug' and not see God for what God is.

Unless God isn't the god he's claimed to be.

[Anatta]

Originally Posted by tempter

Judas is said to have been a key part in Jesus' death. Judas has been demonized as evil - a betrayer.
But it was Judas destiny to do what he did. If it wasn't him, then it was to be someone. This points to predestination. So why do so many people want to paint him as evil/bad/wrong when he was simply doing God's work in God's plan?
The responsibility should be God's, not Judas'.

So why does God get a "free pass" on responsibility? Granted, if God is God, no one could force him to take responsibility. But, that doesn't mean we should 'sweep it under the rug' and not see God for what God is.

Unless God isn't the god he's claimed to be.

A great question. Any Calvinists in the audience?

[wordmagnifiedabovenames]

Originally Posted by tempter

it was Judas destiny to do what he did.

Was it? What are you basing that assertion on?

Originally Posted by tempter

If it wasn't him, then it was to be someone.

I think that God knew what Judas (or "someone") was going to do, and decided to make plans with that in mind. Just because God knew what Judas was going to do doesn't mean God forced Judas to do it. If God didn't force Judas to do it, I don't see why God should be held responsible for Judas' actions. I don't envisage Judas giving an account to God, God asking him why he betrayed Jesus and Judas saying "It's not my fault, You made me do it, it's Your responsibility."

Originally Posted by tempter

So why do so many people want to paint him as evil/bad/wrong when he was simply doing God's work in God's plan?

I think it's more accurate to say that Judas was doing what God knew he would do, and God worked Judas' actions into His own plan. Just because someone can make use of a situation, (even if he knew in advance that said situation was going to arise,) that knowledge doesn't make that person responsible for the occurrance of the situation.

Caution: car analogy approaching...
I know my friend is not good at parking. I don't make him park badly; he chooses where to look, when to engage which pedals etc all by himself. My knowing that he's likely to park badly doesn't make me responsible for his parking (and the damage he inflicts on adjacent objects.) Given that I know how he generally parks, I could install a dashcam on his car and use the footage as an example of "how not to park" in an effort to educate him and amuse myself, but just because I am able to make use of his actions for my own purposes doesn't make me responsible for his actions.

[Thief]

Originally Posted by tempter

Judas is said to have been a key part in Jesus' death. Judas has been demonized as evil - a betrayer.
But it was Judas destiny to do what he did. If it wasn't him, then it was to be someone. This points to predestination. So why do so many people want to paint him as evil/bad/wrong when he was simply doing God's work in God's plan?
The responsibility should be God's, not Judas'.

So why does God get a "free pass" on responsibility? Granted, if God is God, no one could force him to take responsibility. But, that doesn't mean we should 'sweep it under the rug' and not see God for what God is.

Unless God isn't the god he's claimed to be.

I wrote this below as a thread starter...I quote myself...

I've heard discussion that no matter what....we go to heaven.
THAT, I find hard to believe.

Picture yourself as Hitler....yes you can.
You make it through the gate and are escorted all around heaven.

Later that evening, you are invited to supper...with 'thirteen' others.
As you dip your bread in the bowl, a Carpenter is doing likewise.
You turn to use another bowl...and Judas is doing so as well.

(note the.... 'look in the eye'.... part)

Sounds like fun!....don't you think so!
(end quote)

When considering who is who....and what should be done about it...
a fixed fate does seem a bit....small.
As if to write a play....create Man as living robots, as a means to actuate the script...
and then let it all fall to dust.

If there is a God and heaven...there is freewill....and consequence.

[Skwim]

Originally Posted by Thief

If there is a God and heaven...there is freewill....and consequence.

Ah yes, the need for freewill driven by deserved comeuppance. A strange moral twist to be sure, but what the hey I've read worse reasons for freewill.

[Orias]

Originally Posted by tempter

Judas is said to have been a key part in Jesus' death. Judas has been demonized as evil - a betrayer.
But it was Judas destiny to do what he did. If it wasn't him, then it was to be someone. This points to predestination. So why do so many people want to paint him as evil/bad/wrong when he was simply doing God's work in God's plan?
The responsibility should be God's, not Judas'.

So why does God get a "free pass" on responsibility? Granted, if God is God, no one could force him to take responsibility. But, that doesn't mean we should 'sweep it under the rug' and not see God for what God is.

Unless God isn't the god he's claimed to be.

I wonder why the Abrahamic fool always gets all of the attention, I wonder why half the atheist population is atheist because they don't like the idea of the Abrahamic God.

Hum, I guess I don't really care because I already know why

[tempter]

Originally Posted by wordmagnifiedabovenames

Was it? What are you basing that assertion on?


I think that God knew what Judas (or "someone") was going to do, and decided to make plans with that in mind. Just because God knew what Judas was going to do doesn't mean God forced Judas to do it.
1) If God didn't force Judas to do it, I don't see why God should be held responsible for Judas' actions. I don't envisage Judas giving an account to God, God asking him why he betrayed Jesus and Judas saying "It's not my fault, You made me do it, it's Your responsibility."


2) I think it's more accurate to say that Judas was doing what God knew he would do, and God worked Judas' actions into His own plan. Just because someone can make use of a situation, (even if he knew in advance that said situation was going to arise,) that knowledge doesn't make that person responsible for the occurrance of the situation.

Caution: car analogy approaching...
I know my friend is not good at parking. I don't make him park badly; he chooses where to look, when to engage which pedals etc all by himself. My knowing that he's likely to park badly doesn't make me responsible for his parking (and the damage he inflicts on adjacent objects.) Given that I know how he generally parks, I could install a dashcam on his car and use the footage as an example of "how not to park" in an effort to educate him and amuse myself, but just because I am able to make use of his actions for my own purposes doesn't make me responsible for his actions.

1) God knows all, sees all, created all. Thus, god knew that someone was going to do this (Judas, Bob - whomever). God could have created a scenario where this wasn't necessary. He didn't. Thus, ultimate responsibility is God's
2) Disagree. IMO, you're making excuses for God as God could have easily created another scenario with the same end result. Unless one wants to limit this supreme God I suppose.

[tempter]

Originally Posted by Orias

I wonder why the Abrahamic fool always gets all of the attention,
1) I wonder why half the atheist population is atheist because they don't like the idea of the Abrahamic God.

2) Hum, I guess I don't really care because I already know why

1) You answer your own question asked? Feel good? I hope so. That self pleasuring you did aside, where is the ½ figure you're coming up with? Or should I reach up and grab a % out of the air as well?
2) I'm sure you do

[Orias]

Originally Posted by tempter

1) You answer your own question asked?

Nope, the question still has yet to actually be answered.

Originally Posted by tempter

Feel good?

What I'm in the process of doing does.

Originally Posted by tempter

That self pleasuring you did aside, where is the ½ figure you're coming up with?

Observation.

Originally Posted by tempter

Or should I reach up and grab a % out of the air as well?

You could but I'm not sure what good it would do you.

Originally Posted by tempter

2) I'm sure you do

Lost to apathy.

[InChrist]

Originally Posted by tempter

Judas is said to have been a key part in Jesus' death. Judas has been demonized as evil - a betrayer.
But it was Judas destiny to do what he did. If it wasn't him, then it was to be someone. This points to predestination. So why do so many people want to paint him as evil/bad/wrong when he was simply doing God's work in God's plan?
The responsibility should be God's, not Judas'.

So why does God get a "free pass" on responsibility? Granted, if God is God, no one could force him to take responsibility. But, that doesn't mean we should 'sweep it under the rug' and not see God for what God is.

Unless God isn't the god he's claimed to be.

I don't believe it points to predestination. Judas' had the choice to behave the way he did and make the decisions he did. God knew his mind, heart, and evil intentions and used these to fulfill His plan, but that does not mean Judas had no choice in the matter. As you and said if it wasn't Judas, it could have and would have been someone else had Judas acted differently.