Can you believe in the infallabilty of the bible?

[1robin]

Originally Posted by gseeker

Due to 2000 years of scribe errors between 300,000 and 400,000 different errors between ancient manuscripts including entire sections of Scripture not even in the oldest manuscripts, "the adulteress woman and mark 16:9 onward", how much can you trust the Bible?

This is not accurate there are 400,000 errors contained in the textual tradition not in any particular version of the bible. There are about 800,000 words in the bible so It stands to reason that every other word is not messed up. In the Ehrman White debate they somewhat concluded that 95% of these errors are insignificant. You are correct about Mark. The bible has a vastly higher degree of textual reliability than any other work of ancient history and maintains the integrity of all doctrinal issues even though imperfect.

[Rocky S]

Originally Posted by gseeker

First despite the fact that it might cause problems in the Christian church is that no reason not to study and research the Bible to the best of your ability to obtain a better understanding of your God?

Brother I think you might of misunderstood me or maybe I worded it wrong, but no

Originally Posted by gseeker

If people have a crisis of faith because of that, honestly is that your problem?

Yes to certain extent we are to bare one another's burdens. A problem that a brothers or sister is having concerning their faith then becomes our problems as well.

Originally Posted by gseeker

Also If a simple question can cause someone problems in their faith it is likely because they aren't well founded in there faith.

I agree,but what about new converts? That is why God raises up pastors, evangelist, teachers, prophets, etc, for the equipping of the saints.

Originally Posted by gseeker

You also question a persons motivation for claiming such a thing but maybe they claim such a thing because it is historical fact.

To a degree just be careful. I know the conflict in that. Don't allow Satan to get you to question the fallibility of the bible, and I say that because you are a christian. And that may sound out there to a non christian. That is why I made that statement the way I did.

Originally Posted by gseeker

You also mention certain translations you feel are not as good as others but in that respect maybe you should just read it in ancient Hebrew, Arabic, and Greek because you will only ever get limited understanding of gods word by reading it in any other language than the original.

Not so, do you not believe that God is able to preserve his word? I do, I trust Him to do so. People have been killed for translating the bible in English and other languages, their efforts were not in vain, God raised them up to do so..

Originally Posted by gseeker

As for your statement that God would not allow someone to change the essence of the Scripture, why not, God gave men free will.

But his word does not change. Like I said they are bad translations out there, and I have studied this subject countless hours. It took about 5 years, I read and studied out of those translations during that time. I was completely conflicted and confused as to which bible is right. I used to lay out the translations I had during prayer and ask God "which one". But God is not the author of confusion. I believe that is what God showed me. And now the translation I now use, is a translation I was almost combative towards, because the fanaticism that is associated with it. The claims from others about this particular translation that i now accept, were erroneous and wrong and were not coming from a place were they have studied it out, well most of them. 5 years is a long time believe me. These individuals that were against the translations I were using, were just trying to help me. But their claims were not historically accurate, and most of them have not even looked or read or even studied from those translations. But come to find out, in a sense they were right. but I believe God did preserve his word in any vernacular. but there are bad translations in every vernacular as well. I have faith in that fact, I must.

[BBTimeless]

Originally Posted by ChristineES

People are and always have been human (no duh, right?) so there are bound to be human errors- but the Bible isn't about individual verses but about the "feel" of each book in the Bible. I didn't just read a line here and there in my school text books- but entire chapters.

I think this is an important point. I hope, in addition to the chapters/books, you were able to take some time to research about potential authors, timelines, and contexts for the writings. It is fascinating.

[gseeker]

Originally Posted by Rocky S

Brother I think you might of misunderstood me or maybe I worded it wrong, but noYes to certain extent we are to bare one another's burdens. A problem that a brothers or sister is having concerning their faith then becomes our problems as well. I agree,but what about new converts? That is why God raises up pastors, evangelist, teachers, prophets, etc, for the equipping of the saints. To a degree just be careful. I know the conflict in that. Don't allow Satan to get you to question the fallibility of the bible, and I say that because you are a christian. And that may sound out there to a non christian. That is why I made that statement the way I did. Not so, do you not believe that God is able to preserve his word? I do, I trust Him to do so. People have been killed for translating the bible in English and other languages, their efforts were not in vain, God raised them up to do so.. But his word does not change. Like I said they are bad translations out there, and I have studied this subject countless hours. It took about 5 years, I read and studied out of those translations during that time. I was completely conflicted and confused as to which bible is right. I used to lay out the translations I had during prayer and ask God "which one". But God is not the author of confusion. I believe that is what God showed me. And now the translation I now use, is a translation I was almost combative towards, because the fanaticism that is associated with it. The claims from others about this particular translation that i now accept, were erroneous and wrong and were not coming from a place were they have studied it out, well most of them. 5 years is a long time believe me. These individuals that were against the translations I were using, were just trying to help me. But their claims were not historically accurate, and most of them have not even looked or read or even studied from those translations. But come to find out, in a sense they were right. but I believe God did preserve his word in any vernacular. but there are bad translations in every vernacular as well. I have faith in that fact, I must.

First let me say, am I a Christian? I had a born again moment at age 19 but I am now questioning my faith. As a Christian shouldn't it be important to question the fallibility of the Bible? Even if you believe that its fallible you can still acknowledge the fullness of the Scripture in truth. My problem with Scripture is a simple one. I fell a few weeks ago and had drinks with a friend and I ended up drunk. I hit a point of depression and everything from my childhood came up like vomit showing that my faith in Christ has healed nothing it has simply given me the self control to ignore and repress my past. This is something I've been praying about and God hasn't acted upon the promises of his word. Therefore I must question gods word not only to discover if that word is corrupted by man to the point that you can't get the essence of God from it but since most of the Bible was written years after the fact, to question the divinity of Christ.we all know that fans can make the one they are followers into more than they actually are that's why it is called idol worship. In the meantime I still believe Jesus was the son of God and that he died for our sins but I am now questioning if Jesus was instead just a rabbi who realized that due to the governing by Rome and the multiple rebellions by the Jewish people that the Jewish religion would soon not be able to worship God in the manner of the old testament and that he was trying to create an altered version to compensate for the changes soon to come. Or maybe he was God and came to enact the same changes. I still believe as a Christian I just question.

[gseeker]

Originally Posted by 1robin

This is not accurate there are 400,000 errors contained in the textual tradition not in any particular version of the bible. There are about 800,000 words in the bible so It stands to reason that every other word is not messed up. In the Ehrman White debate they somewhat concluded that 95% of these errors are insignificant. You are correct about Mark. The bible has a vastly higher degree of textual reliability than any other work of ancient history and maintains the integrity of all doctrinal issues even though imperfect.

Thanks for clearing that up, I should of stated that it was 400,000 instances of errors and you are right most are insignificant until you see that the Bible has been altered and so major doctrine COULD have been altered especially when whole parts have been added to the word. Of course most Christians were illiterate including those physically copying the letters and life of Jesus.

[jasonwill2]

No.

Originally Posted by gseeker

errors between 300,000 and 400,000 different errors

I think you need to recheck your numbers, it can't possibly be that high. Not that there are not errors or that I believe in the Bible, but that's insanely high.

[gseeker]

Originally Posted by jasonwill2

No.



I think you need to recheck your numbers, it can't possibly be that high. Not that there are not errors or that I believe in the Bible, but that's insanely high.

That's between every manuscript ever found a lot of the mistakes are multiple errors on a single word between many manuscripts. The numbers are right.

[jasonwill2]

Originally Posted by gseeker

That's between every manuscript ever found a lot of the mistakes are multiple errors on a single word between many manuscripts. The numbers are right.

I don't believe you.

[gseeker]

Originally Posted by jasonwill2

I don't believe you.

Okay, so? For truth to exist it can do so in absence of belief. If you choose not to believe me you are also ignoring Biblical scholars including those who go to college simply to translate the manuscripts for a living.

[outhouse]

Originally Posted by jasonwill2

I don't believe you.

sorry bud he is correct


most are spelling or other minor errors but they are there, taking into account there are many different versions of the book this is applied to

only 1% are getting down to more serious errors