God's Priorities (Miracles)

[Pegg]

Originally Posted by idav

Kid gets cured God did it. kid dies God did it but for some greater reason us mere mortals cant fathom. We just assume his purpose is for our greater good.

he's damned if he does and damned if he doesnt because we want him to be our savior but we dont want to give him any credit for anything.

[Pegg]

Originally Posted by Me Myself

you mean God doesn´t give us what we ask? Jesus lied?

what about when he asks something of us? Do we give it to him?

Real relationships are a two way street... but most people go about their lives as if he doesnt exist until they want something, then when God doesnt magically appear like a fairy and provide their request (or demand) they cry foul.

[Falvlun]

Originally Posted by Pegg

he's damned if he does and damned if he doesnt because we want him to be our savior but we dont want to give him any credit for anything.

Actually, it seems the opposite to me. God is given all the credit for all the good stuff, and us horrible humans are blamed for all the bad. God set up a win-win ideology for himself.

[Me Myself]

Originally Posted by Pegg

what about when he asks something of us? Do we give it to him?

So when Jesus said "ask and you shall recieve" he was lying?

[Pegg]

Originally Posted by Me Myself

So when Jesus said "ask and you shall recieve" he was lying?

Jesus was speaking to people who were actively doing Gods will. And how do you think these people understood what Jesus meant when he said 'ask and you shall receive'?

1John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that, no matter what it is that we ask according to his will, he hears us. 15 Further, if we know he hears us respecting whatever we are asking, we know we are to have the things asked since we have asked them of him

If what we ask is in harmony with Gods Will, he will hear us and grant our request.... but i dont think that includes selfish desires and winning the lottery and winning wars against other nations etc etc etc

[Sir Doom]

Originally Posted by godlikemadman

Why is it a miracle if a boy with cancer goes into remission spontaneously and survives, but if 10,000 people starve to death, or someone gets shot by a mugger, or someone dies horrifically in a car crash, it's attributed to bad luck or God's plan or something? How can miracles exist in a world where atrocities occur a thousand times more often? Wouldn't a loving, perfect God perform miracles to benefit the many first before turning to the few? This isn't even getting into theodicy, just priorities.

Okay, so I had to look up theodicy to make sure I didn't get bonked on the head for bringing it into the picture when you've instructed us to leave it out.

Here are a few options to consider that don't seem to fit the definition I read of theodicy but seem to answer your bolded statement.

1. Miracles don't exist at all.
2. Atrocities are miracles as well.
3. Miracles are a product of something other than god
4. God is powerless to stop atrocities

I hope these put your mind at ease on the subject.

[robo]

Originally Posted by godlikemadman

I define "miracle" as divine intervention. People say it exists. Then why so sparingly?

Life is a test. God cannot be helping us humans left, right and center if life is a test, right?

So, he chooses to grant his blessings very carefully. He chooses to reveal himself/perform miracles not to all 7 billion of us simultaneously. But he chooses prophets from amongst a small piece of geography - mostly in and around Middle-Eastern lands to reveal his words to. It is now upto these blessed people to whom God communicated directly to spread the good word to the remaining 99.9% of us - the rest of humanity.

God works in mysterious ways.

[George-ananda]

Originally Posted by godlikemadman

Why is it a miracle if a boy with cancer goes into remission spontaneously and survives, but if 10,000 people starve to death, or someone gets shot by a mugger, or someone dies horrifically in a car crash, it's attributed to bad luck or God's plan or something? How can miracles exist in a world where atrocities occur a thousand times more often? Wouldn't a loving, perfect God perform miracles to benefit the many first before turning to the few? This isn't even getting into theodicy, just priorities.

My opinion is miracles do happen but obviously they are more the exception than the rule.

So, looking at it from a western perspective, we don't see the fairness. The western perspective looks at life as beginning at birth and ending at death. So why should one child with cancer be luckier than the others?

From an eastern (hindu) perspective (which I hold) life does not just begin with this birth nor end with this death. Karma comes into play also. One cannot have the perspective of seeing a soul's journey from beginning to end. If one had the grand perspective they can better understand God's will. So miracles do not just happen randomly. There are factors involved beyond the limited world we can see.

[ChristineES]

People are starving and there is plenty of food on the earth- why is that? Spock on Star Trek once said to Captain Kirk after a Vulcan ship blew up and 400 Vulcans died- Spock knew they were gone (this is paraphrased, I can't remember how it was worded) "Humans can mourn for one human but don't react the same if many humans are lost".
The food is there, it is up to humans to get it to where it belongs. But it doesn't get there. Why? People are compassionate enough- they send help to where it is needed. The government stops it from getting to the people. But why? Is it because they care more about their own power than the people who give it to them? Is there another reason I am not aware of?

Don't blame God for starving people - blame people.

(I expect you to mention natural disasters next, but don't bother- natural disasters are just that, natural disasters. The earth shifts- earthquake. Volcanoes erupt- that's what they do. Winds combine in a way that causes tornadoes and hurricanes and typhoons- that's the way the earth works. )

[idav]

Originally Posted by ChristineES

Don't blame God for starving people - blame people.

(I expect you to mention natural disasters next, but don't bother- natural disasters are just that, natural disasters. The earth shifts- earthquake. Volcanoes erupt- that's what they do. Winds combine in a way that causes tornadoes and hurricanes and typhoons- that's the way the earth works. )

People aren't to blame for the problems in the world. Most the world is uninhabitable without our tools and getting water to the middle of nowhere.

If you think humans have been busy God has been even busier.

Number of deaths for leading causes of death
Heart disease: 599,413
Cancer: 567,628
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
Alzheimer's disease: 79,003
Diabetes: 68,705
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909

FASTSTATS - Leading Causes of Death