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  #101  
Old 02-04-2012, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by filthy tugboat View Post
Actually we do, even the act of adopting someone's opinion is an example of forming an opinion, even if it is faith based, it is still a judgement call. Judgements can be poor but they are still judgements.?
as i said in my response to 9 10ths penguin. judgment call in the person who's opinion you are blindly adopting


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Originally Posted by filthy tugboat View Post
Is it truly blind though? Blind is subjective, if something is a blind judgement, it has to be so from the individuals perspective. Are they blindly trusting or are they trusting based on previous experience?
not sure what you mean here.
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  #102  
Old 02-04-2012, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jamesmorrow View Post
judgement NOT in the opinion you are holding. but judgement in the person who's opinion you blindly adopt without judging it.
Both, actually:

Based on my judgement of this person's reliability, I *judge* what he says to be true.
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  #103  
Old 02-04-2012, 10:26 AM
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as i said in my response to 9 10ths penguin. judgment call in the person who's opinion you are blindly adopting
Is it a blind adoption though? The opinion you form or agree with is based on your interpretation of data. It depends on the actual example in order to call it blind. This data is necessarily from the perspective of the individual, an outside perspective is of no use if we are to determine whether it is blind.

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Originally Posted by jamesmorrow View Post
not sure what you mean here.
I may have explained it better above? I don't know. If someone is trusting someone else, for the belief to be blind, the trust itself must be blind, they must have no idea who they are trusting but just trusting for the sake of trusting. If they are trusting a parent, to what extent is it blind faith? They have(mostly) so many reasons to trust them, it's beyond count.
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  #104  
Old 02-04-2012, 10:41 AM
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James,
You believe that all theists have to believe in G-d in the same manner. You believe that all theists must not judge G-d because it is immoral to do so. You believe that theists don't have the right to question G-d.
You have made blind judgment calls based on what you have been told theists "believe."

In the bible, Abraham questioned G-d's necessity to judge all of Sodom and Gomorrah. Moses questioned G-d's decision on choosing him as a leader. Israel means "one who wrestles with god"

I don't think you really understand what a theist is. Only what you have been told a theist.
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  #105  
Old 02-04-2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin View Post
Both, actually:

Based on my judgement of this person's reliability, I *judge* what he says to be true.
actually both of those judgements are judgements of the person, not the person's opinion.

your first judgement is based on the person's reliability(or trackrecord), and your second judgement is on the person's ability to judge correctly. at no point do you actually judge the person's opinion.
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  #106  
Old 02-04-2012, 10:55 AM
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actually both of those judgements are judgements of the person, not the person's opinion.

your first judgement is based on the person's reliability(or trackrecord), and your second judgement is on the person's ability to judge correctly. at no point do you actually judge the person's opinion.
A person says 'God is moral', then :

What he says = God is moral.

If I judge 'what he says' to be true, I judge 'God is moral' to be true.

I am judging the person's opinion.

Edit: And then it also becomes my own opinion.
Last edited by Koldo; 02-04-2012 at 10:58 AM..
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  #107  
Old 02-04-2012, 11:05 AM
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Is it a blind adoption though? The opinion you form or agree with is based on your interpretation of data. It depends on the actual example in order to call it blind. This data is necessarily from the perspective of the individual, an outside perspective is of no use if we are to determine whether it is blind..
yes, it is a blind adoption of the person's opinion, because you dont form an opinion on the person's opinion at all. you dont interpret any data based on the person's opinion. you only judge the person who's opinion your adopt. not the person's opinion, you only form an opinion on the person itself. not on the person's opinion.



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Originally Posted by filthy tugboat View Post
I may have explained it better above? I don't know. If someone is trusting someone else, for the belief to be blind, the trust itself must be blind, they must have no idea who they are trusting but just trusting for the sake of trusting. If they are trusting a parent, to what extent is it blind faith? They have(mostly) so many reasons to trust them, it's beyond count.
i disagree that the trust in the person you are trusting must be blind. the only thing that must be blind, or rather inexistent, is your opinion on, and your judgement of the opinion of the person you are trusting
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  #108  
Old 02-04-2012, 11:07 AM
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God is perfectly moral, and the source of morality. Morality is based on the efficiency of the certain outcome which makes it moral. Therefore, humans in limited understanding, can only be morally limited. Which also means, what seems immoral to you, means nothing to people who believe God is perfectly moral, being of complete understanding.
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  #109  
Old 02-04-2012, 11:13 AM
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God is perfectly moral, and the source of morality. Morality is based on the efficiency of the certain outcome which makes it moral. Therefore, humans in limited understanding, can only be morally limited. Which also means, what seems immoral to you, means nothing to people who believe God is perfectly moral, being of complete understanding.
What does it mean to be 'morally limited'?
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  #110  
Old 02-04-2012, 11:16 AM
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for pete's sake, we have been over this already.

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Originally Posted by Rakhel View Post
James,
You believe that all theists have to believe in G-d in the same manner..
incorrect.


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Originally Posted by Rakhel View Post
You believe that all theists must not judge G-d because it is immoral to do so...
incorrect. i never made such a statement. i am responding to levite's personal opinion that he can not judge god.


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You believe that theists don't have the right to question G-d.
i dont know about rights, but from what fallingblood and levite have said, they dare not question god because they do not have all the facts.



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Originally Posted by Rakhel View Post
You have made blind judgment calls based on what you have been told theists "believe.".
based on what i have been told BY THEISTS that they believe

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Originally Posted by Rakhel View Post
In the bible, Abraham questioned G-d's necessity to judge all of Sodom and Gomorrah. Moses questioned G-d's decision on choosing him as a leader. Israel means "one who wrestles with god".
i am quite aware of the narratives. thank you.


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Originally Posted by Rakhel View Post
I don't think you really understand what a theist is. Only what you have been told a theist.
i was a theist once. so i guess you would argue that i did not understand what i was?

i think it is you who is suffering a religious identity crisis.
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