Beginnings of Religion (ritual, tradition, beliefs, evolution, dogma)

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

I think the rapidly expanding field of behavioral genetics is on the verge of showing that there is a genetic component for any ubiquitous human behavior, very much including spiritual behavior. That's my hunch.

Mine as well. I simple suggest that the term spiritual colors the view of the network of responses under study. What for example, is the difference between the awe inspired by a sunset, the awe inspired by a peyote ritual, and the awe inspired (for some) by a Billy Graham concert? Furthermore, what is the difference between awe and delusion?

I suspect that what we're seeing is a neuro-chemically induced reaction to a fundamental dissonance brought on by the absence of sufficient pattern, i.e., raw wonder, which religion and science, once indistinguishable, backfills with meaning.

[Sunstone]

You seem to be arguing, Deut, that awe (raw wonder) is the precondition to our impulse to coherence and meaning? Have I correctly understood you, or am I off base?

[michel]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

You seem to be arguing, Deut, that awe (raw wonder) is the precondition to our impulse to coherence and meaning? Have I correctly understood you, or am I off base?

I think Deut's trying to suggests a) that you remove spiritual fom
"I think the rapidly expanding field of behavioral genetics is on the verge of showing that there is a genetic component for any ubiquitous human behavior, very much including spiritual behavior. That's my hunch. "
and b) that spiritual awe is so far removed from what our minds can comprehend that, in order not to 'short circuit', our minds protects itself by justifying the feelings as ones of religious awe.

I think. I might well be wrong.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

You seem to be arguing, Deut, that awe (raw wonder) is the precondition to our impulse to coherence and meaning? Have I correctly understood you, or am I off base?

First of all, let all be aware that this is an area where I am far more ignorant than informed. Now, as to your question, ...

No. I am suggesting that our impulse for coherence and meaning is a precondition for raw wonder.

Imagine walking down the street engrossed in thought and being unaware that you are coming to a curb. You take that last step and, suddenly, you are confronted with the absence of coherence and meaning. For a split second, before the recognition and the fear, there is the dissolution of coherence and meaning. Because of the threat of harm, the mind flails about in search of resolution even before the body flails about to regain balance. Imagine what it would be like to be somehow frozen in that state? A deer in the headlights? The drive to resolve that level of ambiguity is enormous.

On a far more fundamental and universal level, I see religion as the drive to achieve coherence and resolve the tension between our pattern-matching heuristic mandate and the unknown. So-called Eastern religions come close to this when they speak of "becoming grounded" and "achieving balance".

[Sunstone]

Thank you, Deut. I think I can see now why you believe "that the term spiritual colors the view of the network of responses under study."

I'm in agreement with you that religion involves a drive to achieve coherence and meaning. I think the same can be said for spirituality. But I would add that spirituality can also include a sense of connectedness to all things. This sense of connectedness has been reported by many people, mystics and nonmystics alike. It is easy for me to speculate that this sense of connectedness is among those things that "inspire" people to religious behavior.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

But I would add that spirituality can also include a sense of connectedness to all things. This sense of connectedness has been reported by many people, mystics and nonmystics alike.

No doubt. But "sense of connectedness", "awareness of connectedness", and "fact of connectedness" are not the same thing. This sense may be no more than the presumption of coherent pattern, a necessary delusion, fundamentally the same as that which motivates a subject to see a Jack of Clubs when being shown a black Jack of Hearts.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by Deut. 32.8

No doubt. But "sense of connectedness", "awareness of connectedness", and "fact of connectedness" are not the same thing. This sense may be no more than the presumption of coherent pattern, a necessary delusion, fundamentally the same as that which motivates a subject to see a Jack of Clubs when being shown a black Jack of Hearts.

Very true. I've often wondered whether that widely reported "sense of connectedness" was an insight into reality or merely a delusion. I've never found a way to answer that question: so far as I can discern, it could be either. But whatever the case, it does seem to result in a sense of coherence and meaning for those who experience it. And that might be the key thing here, that it results in a sense of coherence and meaning.