Choices (tradition, beliefs, atheist, bible, faith)

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by atofel

It is our heart that drives our motives, not logic or reason. Logic and reasoning are just tools we use for fulfilling our heart's desire.

If we are hungry for food, we use our reasoning to figure out a way to get food to satisfy that hunger. It is the same with spiritual hunger.

When I say that I chose my faith, I am expressing a motive coming from the heart. However, it is important to me that my faith is consistent what I know about the world and that is where the tools of logic and reason come into play.

BTW, awesome question Lycan. I tried to frubal you, but it won't let me yet.

Not to be adversarial but sometimes it is logic and reason that dictates what the heart should or does desire.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by pah

I had a dream recently (I really did) where NetDoc appeared

Point of order... that would be a NIGHTMARE, pah. My wife has them often, but then she realises that she is awake, and that she actually DID marry me!

Atofel:

Your heart is merely a gift from God. His word will either harden or soften it depending on your humility towards his message.

Pah #2,

The heart often transcends logic and reason... just look at love.

[Nick Soapdish]

Originally Posted by pah

Not to be adversarial but sometimes it is logic and reason that dictates what the heart should or does desire.

When I say "desire" I am talking about the underlying motive or hunger. However, what I believe you are talking about when you say "desire" is actually the object of desire (say a boston creme donut).

The motive will always be there and will not change. However, the logic and reason will dictate how we go about satisfying that desire.

For example, when I leave for work in the morning, I desire to get to the office as quickly as I can from my house. I might try to open the closet door and walk through it with the expectation that I will magically appear at my desk. Logically, I know this is not possible, so I will not go that route to satisfy my desire to get to work quickly.

[Nick Soapdish]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

Your heart is merely a gift from God. His word will either harden or soften it depending on your humility towards his message.

I definately agree. We should recognize that our heart changes, and so does our motives and attitudes throughout life.

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

[/color][/b] Point of order... that would be a NIGHTMARE, pah. My wife has them often, but then she realises that she is awake, and that she actually DID marry me!


Pah #2,

The heart often transcends logic and reason... just look at love.

Point of order - it was a brief experience and easily rememdied by awakening. I imagine the experience was much less frightening that being touched by an invisible hoof with pah as a rider on the magnificient beast. Pleasant dreams to you, my friend

Yeah, I know about love and agree. It (heart's desire) is probably a two-way street at times

[Runt]

I don't think we are able to truly choose our beliefs. I think instead we are only able to choose the things we WANT to believe... the things we wish were true. The distinction is a fine one, but it exists. For example, there was a time that I believed there was a God. I didn't choose that belief, I just believed it. Then, when I no longer believed in a God, I still WANTED to believe in God... because the idea of a loving, cosmic Super Parent was comforting to me. So for a while I lied to myself and others, saying that I believed in God.

[michel]

[PART QUOTE=robtex]What you can choose is the research and the efforts of those research leads to a conclusion . Complications come about though when one has already drawn a conclusion before the research is done, the information if fraudlant in its presentation, resources in the area researched are limited or unsatisfactory, the desired finding is in conflict with the actual one or inadaquate time is given to finding and/or interpreting the information.
If they did nothing wrong with that (until they pitch their religion to others), but one who has specific goals in their spirtual journey and pursues them with academic integrity has a much stronger personal answer than one who accepted there faith on lesser information.
But within that opinion the need for a devil's adovcate is paramount to me. An atheist who cannot imagine a world with a God in it and a christian who cannot imagine Allah or a Jew who cannot mentally entertain atheism while searching is cheating themselves in their search.[/quote]
I agree with you Rob, but your "Complications come about though when one has already drawn a conclusion before the research is done....." frightens me a little - although I fully understand your stance on this -; for someone to 'live up to' your criteria for descision making would be virtually impossible; as children are introduced to Society, the media etc etc rather tends to take Religion and therefore a deity as a foregone conclusion, which would seem to suggest that you cannot see a world in which anyone can come to a conclusion without already having been 'tainted' with preconceptions.

I am totally with you for the need of a devil's advocate; there can be no 'complacency' in a belief system - and yet, this highlights the one 'impasse' - that being the word 'Faith'.

[Lycan]

IMHO - Whatever venue used to come to a conclusion on your faith (be it research, logic, trust in another's word) is what brings us to the condition of belief. I do feel WANT plays a role but is not in itself the deciding factor. I don't think that we "choose" our beliefs, because if what I want/like to believe is illogical to me or proven different by research then I will not believe regardless of how I actually FEEL about it. I do think, however, that we choose whether or not we question/research what we believe, which would open us up for changes or confirmation of faith. So depending on how far an individual is willing to go in search for their "truth" actually determines the "choice" of their belief system.

[Lycan]

And atofel.....

It's the frubal thoughts that count

Thanks

[cardero]

There are a few conditions to a belief. You can either make the choice to prove a belief to a TRUTH or you can prove it to an UNTRUTH or you can just carry it around in your pocket until more evidence becomes available. Faith and doubt are both abuses that we choose to impose on beliefs. Many people have their beliefs chosen for them and do not make the personal choice to prove or disprove them because they feel someone else has done this for them already. There are not too many original beliefs circulating amongst our society today.