Do you really think you are helping anyone?

[Kathryn]

Father Heathen, I do believe you're right - though of course someone else may think you're wrong and then who really knows what the truth is? LOL

As I said on the other thread regarding truth:

You all do know, don't you, that we will not be able to reach an agreement on what Truth actually is, right? Greater minds than ours have grappled with that question since the beginning of time. I don't expect us to figure it out on this forum.

We each have to figure it out as best we can for ourselves and then live with as much integrity as possible while applying what we believe to be truth to our lives. Sometimes this means showing respect for others whose idea of truth doesn't match up with ours, and sometimes it means going to battle against them.

History teaches us this, doesn't it? Sometimes we must take a stand for what we believe with all our heart to be the absolute truth whether others agree with us or not.

[Kathryn]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

Flat earth sound familiar?

That wasn't, and isn't, strictly a religious belief. You're grasping at straws, not that I blame you. To expect anyone to read through pages and pages of this thread would be asking a bit much.

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Kathryn

As I said, you came in rather late in the game. You seem to have missed some critical turns in the road on this thread.

My point (made many pages back) is that regardless of religious affiliation, or lack thereof, we all hold beliefs regarding things we believe to be true. And by that, I don't mean strictly religious beliefs - but those are included.

And here is a big part of the problem.
You assume that there is no difference between religious truths and secular truths.

Originally Posted by Kathryn

When we believe things that contradict what others believe, we believe these because we believe them to be TRUE. Which means that we believe contradictory beliefs to be UNTRUE.

This is a mere assumption on your part.
An assumption you tried really hard to shove down Sky's throat.

Originally Posted by Kathryn

I brought this up because some people insist that they have chosen a certain path of belief, which contradicts another path, but it's all sweetness and light because that other path is true, too.

Where is your irrefutable evidence that it is not true?

Originally Posted by Kathryn

I think that's basically dishonest - a bundle of words which strung together mean basically nothing - but on the surface sounds nice.

Which applies to every single religious "truth" that is and ever was.

Originally Posted by Kathryn

What I was doing was calling that out. Atheists believe that God does not exist. Therefore they believe that those who DO believe God exists are wrong. Buddhists do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Word. Therefore they believe that those who do believe that are wrong.

Asinine generalizations aside, you make assumptions that as to what people think and believe and try using said assumptions as your support.

Now I understand that that really all you have to support your claim, but it is rather interesting that you cannot even see that that is what you are doing.

I suspect it has to do with your thinking your truth is truth...

Originally Posted by Kathryn

They can say "I just didn't find the truth I need in Christianity," all they want, but what they really mean is, "I do not believe in the tenets of Christianity. Therefore, I believe that Christians believe in things that are not true."

Again you dictate what other think and believe.
Are by chance gifted with mind reading?

Originally Posted by Kathryn

I brought all that up because so often, people speak of the intolerance and the arrogance of others who hold certain beliefs, while not admitting that they believe just as strongly that others are mistaken.

Beliefs alone do not make one arrogant.
What makes a person arrogant is the way they communicate said beliefs.

Originally Posted by Kathryn

Here's the rub - SO WHAT? We aren't all right. We can't possibly be. All of us should continue to seek wisdom. We're all probably wrong on quite a few points of truth.

What is your 'irrefutable evidence' that this ever elusive "absolute truth" you cling to exists?

Originally Posted by Kathryn

I just think it's hypocritical to claim to have respect for the beliefs of others when they disagree with your beliefs. Respect for their RIGHT to disagree? Absolutely. Respect for their life experiences which bring them to this set of beliefs? Certainly. But to claim to respect that which you believe is UNTRUE? What's the honor in that? How is that good?

You inability to respect something and disagree with it at the same time is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

I do find it interesting how you would claim to accept that you might be wrong about some truth yet rant and rave about not being able to respect something you think is untrue.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to show us this truth that you makes you so cocksure?

Originally Posted by Kathryn

As a Christian on this forum, I am constantly reminded of the disrespect that others have for my faith. My Diety is called a Sky Daddy. My beliefs are ridiculed. Icons are turned into cartoons. People crack jokes and laugh at beliefs as integral to the Christian faith as the Eucharist, the Trinity, the resurrection, the virgin birth, etc.

Nice little rant.
Can we get back on topic?

Originally Posted by Kathryn

That's OK - I expect that on this forum, and if it bothers me unduly, I have the right to simply leave the forum.

Waiting to get back on topic.

Originally Posted by Kathryn

It doesn't bother me much, though. I continue to participate willingly, and to debate and discuss all sorts of topics, religious and otherwise.

Your topic irrelevant rants seem to indicate that it bothers you more than you think.

Originally Posted by Kathryn

But I will also point out hypocrisy and inconsistency whenever I find it. I don't demand respect for my faith here, but I do demand honesty.

Yet you hav enot shown how it is hypocritical, dishonest, or inconsistent.

Seems you are allowing your passions to over rule your reason.

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Kathryn

That wasn't, and isn't, strictly a religious belief. You're grasping at straws, not that I blame you. To expect anyone to read through pages and pages of this thread would be asking a bit much.

Yes it is grasping at straws.
But it was YOU who was grasping at them, not me.

Sad that you seem unable to understand.

[Thief]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

Does that also include all the religious crutches, all the faith crutches, all the wishful thinking crutches, all the dogma crutches, etc. as well?

As well, the lack of faith....

[waitasec]

Originally Posted by Father Heathen

Personally, I find the notion that truth is in the eye of the beholder to be a little silly.
Let's say that someone believed themselves to be bullet proof. You can say "it's true to them", but if you were to shoot them in the head you would see just how far that "truth" goes.

but it is true they are not bullet proof...that is verifiable...shoot em' and it'll will be confirmed...

it's with unverifiable truths that is found in the eye of the beholder...

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Thief

As well, the lack of faith....

How exactly is lack of faith a crutch?

[Thief]

Originally Posted by Father Heathen

Personally, I find the notion that truth is in the eye of the beholder to be a little silly.

Good up to this point...

Let's say that someone believed themselves to be bullet proof. You can say "it's true to them", but if you were to shoot them in the head you would see just how far that "truth" goes.

....then a digression to a poor perspective.

If you really want to poke (or shoot) the other guy's perspective....
take the perspective as your own and see where it goes....
THEN say why it fails.

Truth is in the eye of the beholder?

What appears to be repeatable fails when the circumstances change.

This would be a religious debate?...belief in life after death?

Let's say...You actually get a shot at me....the real thing.
I die.
I then go before you, and prepare for your pending arrival.
I could be the one standing over you, as you breath your last breathe.

Having gone before you, with faith....I might well have favor in the next life.

What then of you?...as you stand up from your dust.
Will your nay saying continue to be your shield?
Will the nay saying prevent....judgment?

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by waitasec

it's with unverifiable truths that is found in the eye of the beholder...

Like the very existence of God.
Now since the very existence of god is unverifiable, then people are free to believe what ever tickles their fancy about this unverifiable being.

What is comical is how people argue the various alleged "truths" they associate with and to said god.

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Thief

....then a digression to a poor perspective.

If you really want to poke (or shoot) the other guy's perspective....
take the perspective as your own and see where it goes....
THEN say why it fails.

Truth is in the eye of the beholder?

What appears to be repeatable fails when the circumstances change.

This would be a religious debate?...belief in life after death?

Let's say...You actually get a shot at me....the real thing.
I die.
I then go before you, and prepare for your pending arrival.
I could be the one standing over you, as you breath your last breathe.

Having gone before you, with faith....I might well have favor in the next life.

What then of you?...as you stand up from your dust.
Will your nay saying continue to be your shield?
Will the nay saying prevent....judgment?

Waiting for you to verify these 'truths' you speak of....