How should one respond to pious liars?

[Looncall]

On these forums we constantly see people who claim to believe things that have been very clearly refuted, such as the noahic flood. In many cases, the refutation has been pointed out to them repeatedly. My conclusion is that they are lieing for something similar to political purposes.

How should one respond?

My personal inclination is to respond with bitter contempt. I doubt that any sort of rational argument would be fruitful.

If these lies were of no importance, one could easily ignore them. However, these same lies are being taught to children and also being used to promote injustices (eg original sin from the Adam and Eve myth).

Is there any way to get through to pious liars?

[Willamena]

We should either respond to them as if our "refutation" doesn't address what they are looking at, or not respond at all.

Assuming that they are lying isn't helpful, especially if they aren't.

[lunakilo]

When I started university ther was a very old professor who could not understand how the first year students could be so stupid, after all he had taught the same subject for 25 years, and the silly students kept asking the same stupid questions over and over again. One should think that after 25 years even the first year students should have understood, right

Well he was very old

My point is, that it is not necessarily the same people stating the same stupid claims over and over again. All you can do is repeat your argument explaining why what they say makes no sense, or you can give up (and retire)

[Revoltingest]

Give'm the benefit of doubt.
Very different (& sometimes dysfunctional) ways of thinking needn't be lying.
I know that I don't appreciate it when I'm told that I really know God, but I lie because I hate him.
(No kidding....I'm really not lying about my non-belief.)

[Looncall]

Originally Posted by lunakilo

When I started university ther was a very old professor who could not understand how the first year students could be so stupid, after all he had taught the same subject for 25 years, and the silly students kept asking the same stupid questions over and over again. One should think that after 25 years even the first year students should have understood, right

Well he was very old

My point is, that it is not necessarily the same people stating the same stupid claims over and over again. All you can do is repeat your argument explaining why what they say makes no sense, or you can give up (and retire)

That's a very nice story. Thank you for it. I have taught at university and I know how he felt.

It can be very difficult to make things clear. I found that doing unexpected things sometimes helped, like using the speed of light in furlongs per fortnight, for example.

I have made a minor hobby of this kind of forum for a few years and I do not remember seeing a believer admit they were in error. In any case, those who are teaching the believers (pastors, imams etc) are even more culpable, I think, since they have a duty to know what they are talking about. I suppose some of them just do it for the money.

A while ago, I read about a problem in northern Quebec where the residents refused to allow their children to study evolution because their pastor had spoken against it. My first thought was that the christians were still abusing the first nations folk, even after their horrible history of such actions.

[angellous_evangellous]

Just lie right back.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Looncall

On these forums we constantly see people who claim to believe things that have been very clearly refuted, such as the noahic flood. In many cases, the refutation has been pointed out to them repeatedly. My conclusion is that they are lieing for something similar to political purposes.

How should one respond?

Keep in mind that even if you've responded point-by-point to all of these claims a hundred times, it's quite possible that the person putting forward the claim right now is doing it for the first time. Even if there's a well-documented and well-referenced explanation on talkorigins debunking what they're saying, it's entirely possible that they've never even heard of that site when they arrive here.

Usually, they haven't received the benefit of those earlier refutations.

Personally, I can't fathom any reason why someone would lie about believing in Noah's flood - or similar claims - unless it was a troll playing Poe for lulz, so I generally assume that they're sincere when they say they believe it.

I think that a lot of the people like you describe that we get here are people who have simply taken their pastor's word for it on matters of science, or have learned "atheist debate tactics" in their Bible study group, and decide to come here to try out what they've learned. They may be misguided and uninformed, but I don't usually sense actual deceit. The odd time maybe, but it's very rare here, IMO.

[Looncall]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Just lie right back.

Thanks, I could do with a snooze just now!

[lunakilo]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

Keep in mind that even if you've responded point-by-point to all of these claims a hundred times, it's quite possible that the person putting forward the claim right now is doing it for the first time. Even if there's a well-documented and well-referenced explanation on talkorigins debunking what they're saying, it's entirely possible that they've never even heard of that site when they arrive here.

Usually, they haven't received the benefit of those earlier refutations.

Personally, I can't fathom any reason why someone would lie about believing in Noah's flood - or similar claims - unless it was a troll playing Poe for lulz, so I generally assume that they're sincere when they say they believe it.

I think that a lot of the people like you describe that we get here are people who have simply taken their pastor's word for it on matters of science, or have learned "atheist debate tactics" in their Bible study group, and decide to come here to try out what they've learned. They may be misguided and uninformed, but I don't usually sense actual deceit. The odd time maybe, but it's very rare here, IMO.

Exactly.

And if a person comes to a place like this for the first time and makes a silly claim and all they get in return is 'you are so stupid, you should know that isn't so.' then all you have done is to make sure that person is now convinced that the world is full of evil/spitefull/(...) evolutionists/atheists/scientists/satanists/(...)

[lunakilo]

Originally Posted by Looncall

Thanks, I could do with a snooze just now!

Did you say you where a teacher