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  #1  
Old 03-22-2011, 05:46 PM
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Question How is the Bible evidence the supernatural events it claims actually happened?

I mean, from what I've seen the Bible is just hearsay from thousands of years ago. That is not evidence at all. The problem with hearsay is its not verifiable to any outside parties. If someone were to accept hearsay from thousands of years ago they might as well accept the Pagan or the Hindu Gods. Modern personal experiences are the same. There are all sorts of people going around saying they were abducted by aliens, or saw bigfoot. People who even say they saw God and its Allah instead. There is no way to verify their experience so its not evidence.

Anecdotes as evidence:
Anecdotal evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On top of that, the gospels appear to have been originally untitled; they were quoted anonymously in the first half of the second century. (i.e. 100–150) but the names by which they are currently known appear suddenly around the year 180. (E P Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus, (Penguin, 1995) page 63 - 64.)

No one knows who these original authors were. They could have been anybody. Including con-artists, scammers, etc. If you saw any other book written around 2000 years ago, and no one knew the authors and it said the author had a flying pet camel, would you believe it? People can say anything, about anything in books.

There are also prophecy claims. It is very easy to make a prophecy fulfilled. Its trying to match up words with the countless events in history. Some people can also make a prophecy vague, or say words in a way that are open to interpretation. Someone can also say something they thought was probably going to happen. They can get away with it that way. On top of that, coincidences happen. There wouldn't be a way to tell if the prophecy fulfilling event was not just a very lucky coincidence. Another way is if the person knew the prophecy beforehand and intentionally made it happen. Since the bible is one of the most widely known books, people are able to do that. Which makes its prophecies not credible.

I know there are places and things like that which were real, but where is the evidence for the supernatural claims? If someone found a Spider Man comic 2000 years from now and the Spider Man Comic mentioned New York would that make it true?

I don't see how a god, who would have been the genius who created the intricate laws of physics, who divised the mathematics of the universe, who made every complex design in the human body, who would be the beginning and end and so knows the future, could only come up with a book full of hearsay from thousands of years ago as evidence. That is one of the worst ways to prove to someone something.

Historians will tell you that they do not work with proof, they only work with probability because once something is in the past it is gone. The event in question is over with. So there is no way to verify that it truly happened. The more far we go in the past, the more difficult it is to see what really happened. Now there are certain things they do to see what probably happened. These probabilities are limited by the human mind; what we already know, something could have happened that we don't know about, or just something that we didn't think of, or something that was improbable happened but we dismissed it because it was improbable. They can see if anecdotes match up with any other form of evidence they have, but pure hearsay is just not considered evidence at all.

For anyone that says "Just have faith, it's not supposed to be evidence" I made a thread explaining that as well and you can reply there:

Blind Faith

Last edited by Butterfly Christie; 03-22-2011 at 09:16 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-22-2011, 06:26 PM
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The end of the road for some, after a fast life experiencig many things, or after a long life with nothing left to experience, some turn to inquisitiveness about death, the other side.
It turns out the bible is one collection of words that discuss this aspect of life. Therein lies the appeal.
Now God being God, can control whom will believe and who will not according to this book of words. Some people are quite powerless when it comes to their devotion to these words, and others ridicule from outside and say they are just weak minded.

Best not to judge others, just keep following your heart.
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  #3  
Old 03-22-2011, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly Christie View Post
I mean, from what I've seen the Bible is just hearsay from thousands of years ago. That is not evidence at all. The problem with hearsay is its not verifiable to any outside parties. If someone were to accept hearsay from thousands of years ago they might as well accept the Pagan or the Hindu Gods. Modern personal experiences are the same. There are all sorts of people going around saying they were abducted by aliens, or saw bigfoot. People who even say they saw God and its Allah instead. There is no way to verify their experience so its not evidence.

Anecdotes as evidence:
Anecdotal evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On top of that, the gospels appear to have been originally untitled; they were quoted anonymously in the first half of the second century. (i.e. 100–150) but the names by which they are currently known appear suddenly around the year 180. (E P Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus, (Penguin, 1995) page 63 - 64.)

No one knows who these original authors were. They could have been anybody. Including con-artists, scammers, etc. If you saw any other book written around 2000 years ago, and no one knew the authors and it said the author had a flying pet camel, would you believe it? People can say anything, about anything in books.

There are also prophecy claims. It is very easy to make a prophecy fulfilled. Its trying to match up words with the countless events in history. Some people can also make a prophecy vague, or say words in a way that are open to interpretation. Someone can also say something they thought was probably going to happen. They can get away with it that way. On top of that, coincidences happen. There wouldn't be a way to tell if the prophecy fulfilling event was not just a very lucky coincidence. Another way is if the person knew the prophecy beforehand and intentionally made it happen. Since the bible is one of the most widely known books, people are able to do that. Which makes its prophecies not credible.

I know there are places and things like that which were real, but where is the evidence for the supernatural claims? If someone found a Spider Man comic 2000 years from now and the Spider Man Comic mentioned New York would that make it true?

I don't see how a god, who would have been the genius who created the intricate laws of physics, who divised the mathematics of the universe, who made every complex design in the human body, who would be the beginning and end and so knows the future, could only come up with a book full of hearsay from thousands of years ago as evidence. That is one of the worst ways to prove to someone something.

Historians will tell you that they do not work with proof, they only work with probability because once something is in the past it is gone. The event in question is over with. So there is no way to verify that it truly happened. The more far we go in the past, the more difficult it is to see what really happened. Now there are certain things they do to see what probably happened. These probabilities are limited by the human mind; what we already know, something could have happened that we don't know about, or just something that we didn't think of, or something that was improbable happened but we dismissed it because it was improbable. They can see if anecdotes match up with any other form of evidence they have, but pure hearsay is just not considered evidence at all.
David Hume in his books An Enquiry into Human Understanding and Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion contain some very fascinating arguments concerning this topic. His views on miracles actually match some of your statements quite well.
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  #4  
Old 03-22-2011, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
The end of the road for some, after a fast life experiencig many things, or after a long life with nothing left to experience, some turn to inquisitiveness about death, the other side.
It turns out the bible is one collection of words that discuss this aspect of life. Therein lies the appeal.
Now God being God, can control whom will believe and who will not according to this book of words. Some people are quite powerless when it comes to their devotion to these words, and others ridicule from outside and say they are just weak minded.

Best not to judge others, just keep following your heart.
That wasn't actually an explanation on how the Bible is evidence, which is what this thread is about. It looks like you said the Bible doesn't have evidence, but God picks certain people to believe in it anyway. I'm actually asking this to Christians who think it is evidence, and I know they are out there.

I haven't seen the evidence there is a God out there making people irrationally believe in a book either. Maybe that's the point of that proposed situation, but I could just as easily say an invisible magical hippo that created the universe is out there, he just only gives evidence to people he chooses. So people would be justified in not believing. Your indistinguishable from someone who is just saying that because they already invested a lot in their belief, and just wants it to be true, but has no evidence for it.

I don't really disagree with judging. I just disagree with pre-judging. Everybody judges, and we wouldn't be able to live without doing it. I'm judging I'm typing on a keyboard right now. If I wasn't able to judge, I'd probably be typing on a toaster. I just when the light is green, when driving my car at an intersection. Judging saves people's lives.
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  #5  
Old 03-22-2011, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
David Hume in his books An Enquiry into Human Understanding and Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion contain some very fascinating arguments concerning this topic. His views on miracles actually match some of your statements quite well.
Can you explain what was the best argument they gave? Thanks I'll check them out.

Last edited by Butterfly Christie; 03-22-2011 at 06:59 PM..
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  #6  
Old 03-22-2011, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Butterfly_Christie
How is the Bible evidence the supernatural events it claims actually happened?
It may not be, (depending upon the standard to which the "evidence" is held, and whether one is prepared to count God as a "witness" who is able to testify to the events contained within.) Perhaps God is more interested in a person's faith than He is interested in a person's ability to agree with that against which there is no counter-argument.

Last edited by wordmagnifiedabovenames; 03-22-2011 at 08:54 PM.. Reason: Spelling
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  #7  
Old 03-22-2011, 09:14 PM
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Hi there, since this is a usual response from Christians who don't think the Bible is evidence I made a thread about what I think about blind faith. You can check it out here:

Blind Faith
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  #8  
Old 03-23-2011, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Butterfly Christie View Post
I'm actually asking this to Christians who think it is evidence, and I know they are out there.
So you are looking for a specific group of people to allow you to bolster or practice your arguments on, rather then focus on what the bible actually has to say?

Interesting. Good luck with that.
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  #9  
Old 03-23-2011, 12:26 PM
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Though I might be technically practicing I'm just interested in what they have to about it in general. I'm not looking to practice or bolster.

Christians have different interpretations and beliefs. You may think that is not what it says, but they do.
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by wordmagnifiedabovenames View Post
Perhaps God is more interested in a person's faith than He is interested in a person's ability to agree with that against which there is no counter-argument.
only an insecure god would be interested if anyone believes in it...
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