Christians, What is 'hell'?

[savethedreams]

specifically Catholics, Is hell a bad place or does the bible contradict?
Can you properly explain:

Job 14:13

job chapter 18

Ecc 9:5-10

Psalms 37: 10 & 11

Psalms 146: 4

Ezekiel 18:4

Acts 2:27 "not leave my soul in hell" but its eternal?

Either the bible contradicts or 'hell' is the grave.

'God just invented 'hell' "Back then there thought of hell being fiery was just developing" are not logical answers.

There i plenty of other scriptures I can use. I am not a bible believer nor a christian, but if I were the Jehovah Witnesses take the win for this topic on hell. They already won on the 'holidays' and 'the cross'.

So where did 'hell' fire burn torment eternity come from? Once again,

"God invented hell recently" or "back then there thought of hell being fiery was just developing' are NO way logical answers.

[Friend of Bill W]

Hell is just a Catholic doctrine to get bums on pews.

Originally Posted by savethedreams

but if I were the Jehovah Witnesses take the win for this topic on hell. They already won on the 'holidays' and 'the cross'.

Yes, but it's a shame the JWs lose when it comes to their blood doctrine. Shame that!

[outhouse]

Originally Posted by savethedreams

specifically Catholics, Is hell a bad place or does the bible contradict?
Can you properly explain:

Job 14:13

job chapter 18

Ecc 9:5-10

Psalms 37: 10 & 11

Psalms 146: 4

Ezekiel 18:4

Acts 2:27 "not leave my soul in hell" but its eternal?

Either the bible contradicts or 'hell' is the grave.

'God just invented 'hell' "Back then there thought of hell being fiery was just developing" are not logical answers.

There i plenty of other scriptures I can use. I am not a bible believer nor a christian, but if I were the Jehovah Witnesses take the win for this topic on hell. They already won on the 'holidays' and 'the cross'.

So where did 'hell' fire burn torment eternity come from? Once again,

"God invented hell recently" or "back then there thought of hell being fiery was just developing' are NO way logical answers.

hell and all its aspects are fiction.

hell started out as sheol which ment grave or dirt pit

it progressed to the hades myth

then later on it progressed again to gehenna which was a 24/7 burning dump outside of the city where sinners would be burned with the garbage. This is where the fire starts with the hell tradition

much later on we start getting into "hell" with all its glory and fire and brimstone and the devil with horns ect ect ect

its all myth that evolved over a 1700 year period then slowly progressed even more to what we think hell is today

[Egyptian Phoenix]

Hell is an idea that existed long before Christianity, but only Christians believe in it in their sense. No one else believed in just one hell, or that these hells were eternal, or indeed that one could not die in these hells and then be reborn somewhere else.

[EverChanging]

"Hell" is a word that does not belong in many scriptures that it is commonly inserted in. Newer translations of the Bible mention "hell" much less than the King James Version because it is often a poor translation. Often, it is used to refer to the grave. In at least the more early parts of the Hebrew canon, Jews did not believe in an afterlife.

In the canonical gospel, hell is often translated from Gehenna, a place where people reportedly sacrificed their children to gods by fire; it was a type of analogy.

Also, it appears that the writers of the Bible did not have a cultural concept of "eternal" in the same sense that we do. Words translated "for ever" or "eternal" are properly translated "until the end of the age."

That being said, the Bible is quite vague and ambiguous on this subject and has thus been interpreted in various ways, especially since the concept itself evolves throughout the text; this will happen in any text written by numerous authors over hundreds, thousands of years. It would be helpful to remove the word and simply use the Greek and Hebrew words we often translate as hell to emphasize that we're not talking about one, static concept here. In contrast to the Bible, fundamentalist churches focus on hell quite often, limit it to one specific concept, and focus on a literal, fiery, eternal hell.

Many early Christians were universalists, believing that one day all will be saved, and eternal damnation does not appear in the Nicene creed. To this day, universalism is still held out as a possibility within Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy (although a certain form of it may be condemned.)

The traditional doctrine of an eternal, fiery hell took a few centuries to develop and was probably mostly political and coercive.

Most traditional churches do not emphasize hell and do not believe in it literally, though an unfortunate number of people seem to cling to eternal punishment nevertheless.

To some of the radical mystics of the three major Abrahamic faiths, heaven was within, a state to be attained through prayer and other means. I relate to this and also think of hell as something within. I don't believe in a literal soul or individualized afterlife and thus probably lean more toward Judaism in that regard, although some Jews do believe in an afterlife and even reincarnation (as do some Christians).

[outhouse]

The traditional doctrine of an eternal, fiery hell took a few centuries to develop and was probably mostly political and coercive.

if you look at history you will see it has constantly evolved and views of such a place have always changed. it was not a proccess that took a few hundred years.

after gehenna began the fire as we know it and it was still grown since then to even modern times.

[savethedreams]

Originally Posted by EverChanging

"Hell" is a word that does not belong in many scriptures that it is commonly inserted in. Newer translations of the Bible mention "hell" much less than the King James Version because it is often a poor translation. Often, it is used to refer to the grave. In at least the more early parts of the Hebrew canon, Jews did not believe in an afterlife.

In the canonical gospel, hell is often translated from Gehenna, a place where people reportedly sacrificed their children to gods by fire; it was a type of analogy.

Also, it appears that the writers of the Bible did not have a cultural concept of "eternal" in the same sense that we do. Words translated "for ever" or "eternal" are properly translated "until the end of the age."

That being said, the Bible is quite vague and ambiguous on this subject and has thus been interpreted in various ways, especially since the concept itself evolves throughout the text; this will happen in any text written by numerous authors over hundreds, thousands of years. It would be helpful to remove the word and simply use the Greek and Hebrew words we often translate as hell to emphasize that we're not talking about one, static concept here. In contrast to the Bible, fundamentalist churches focus on hell quite often, limit it to one specific concept, and focus on a literal, fiery, eternal hell.

Many early Christians were universalists, believing that one day all will be saved, and eternal damnation does not appear in the Nicene creed. To this day, universalism is still held out as a possibility within Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy (although a certain form of it may be condemned.)

The traditional doctrine of an eternal, fiery hell took a few centuries to develop and was probably mostly political and coercive.

Most traditional churches do not emphasize hell and do not believe in it literally, though an unfortunate number of people seem to cling to eternal punishment nevertheless.

To some of the radical mystics of the three major Abrahamic faiths, heaven was within, a state to be attained through prayer and other means. I relate to this and also think of hell as something within. I don't believe in a literal soul or individualized afterlife and thus probably lean more toward Judaism in that regard, although some Jews do believe in an afterlife and even reincarnation (as do some Christians).

Okay well I very parting with the idea of reincarnation, very seriously, I'm not 100% but it make more sense to me. But with the bible what do you feel when people say 'lake of fire' in Revelation where it says 'burn in the hell, fire and brimstone". In revelation 20. That is the only scripture that says that, that I can find about fire. So what is the lake of fire. etc.

[savethedreams]

Originally Posted by outhouse

if you look at history you will see it has constantly evolved and views of such a place have always changed. it was not a proccess that took a few hundred years.

after gehenna began the fire as we know it and it was still grown since then to even modern times.

What about 'lake of fire' 'hell fire and brimestone' in that ONE ONE scirpture in revelation 20 etc. I can only find one scripture roughly:

Reve 19:20 (NASB) And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
Reve 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Reve 20:14 And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part [will be] in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."


What does this mean or did translator did this wrong...

[EverChanging]

if you look at history you will see it has constantly evolved and views of such a place have always changed. it was not a proccess that took a few hundred years.

after gehenna began the fire as we know it and it was still grown since then to even modern times.

I realize it is a doctrine in constant flux, and I pointed this out in regard to modern views on hell. My point is that it was at least a few centuries before the idea of an eternal hell became mainstream. I agree with you that the idea of eternal damnation has continued to evolve.

[URAVIP2ME]

Originally Posted by savethedreams

What about 'lake of fire' 'hell fire and brimestone' in that ONE ONE scirpture in revelation 20 etc. I can only find one scripture roughly:
Reve 19:20 (NASB) And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
Reve 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Reve 20:14 And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part [will be] in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
What does this mean or did translator did this wrong...

The definition of the 'lake of fire' is not hell but: second death.

Biblical Hell is from Hebrew: sheol, and Greek: hades/haides

Whereas another Greek word that is often translated as hellfire is: Gehenna.

Jesus was never in Gehenna, Jesus was just in hell. -Acts 2vs27,31.
Jesus believed the Bible hell is the common grave of mankind where the sleeping unconscious dead sleep death's deep sleep until they are resurrected to either heaven or resurrected on earth.- Acts 24v15.
[John 11vs11-14; Ecc9v5;Psalm 6v5;13v3;115v17;146v4;Daniel 12vs2,13]

In a nut shell, 'Gehenna' was the name of the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem were things were destroyed and not kept burning forever.
So Gehenna [hellfire] is really a fitting symbol of destruction.

I noticed you omitted verse 13 of Rev chapter 20.
Was that because it just said hell and not lake of fire?

Did you notice in verse13 that all in the Bible hell are 'delivered up' [resurrected] and only after all in hell [gravedom] are gone from hell then, and only then, is emptied-out vacant hell according to verse 14 cast into second death meaning a death with no chance of ever existing again.
Hell and death are destroyed forever. That is why Rev 21vs4,5 can say there will be No more death. Our last enemy 'death' will be brought to nothing according to 1st Cor 15v26; Isaiah 25v8.

Even sinner Satan will be destroyed according to Hebrews 2v14 B.
Destroyed by Jesus ending in second death.-Rev 21v8 B