What Day was Jesus Crucified?

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by smokydot

So you don't think Deut 19:18 is true?

Um... I don't think that is the verse you were aiming for.

Deuteronomy 19:18
18. And the judges shall inquire thoroughly, and behold, the witness is a false witness; he has testified falsely against his brother;

I think you were aiming for Deuteronomy 18:18
18. I will set up a prophet for them from among their brothers like you, and I will put My words into his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him.

Of course the words are true. But there is nothing in the verse that signifies that any prophet will be of the same magnitude as Moses, but that there will BE other prophets. The immediate context is talking about Joshua, the next prophet and leader of Israel.

He said there were no OT Scriptures in my post (#1003), and since you didn't seem to have any problem seeing them,
I thought you might do him the favor of pointing out the OT Scriptures given in the types there.

I wasn't suggesting you comment on any of those OT Scriptures, I was just suggesting you might show him where they were located in post #1003.

Ah. Very good.

[smokydot]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Um... I don't think that is the verse you were aiming for.
Deuteronomy 19:18
18. And the judges shall inquire thoroughly, and behold, the witness is a false witness; he has testified falsely against his brother;
I think you were aiming for Deuteronomy 18:
18. I will set up a prophet for them from among their brothers like you, and I will put My words into his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him.

LOL! . .Yep, you're right. . .too many numbers to type.

Of course the words are true. But there is nothing in the verse that signifies that any prophet will be of the same magnitude as Moses, but that there will BE other prophets. The immediate context is talking about Joshua, the next prophet and leader of Israel.

I appreciate your understanding of that.

Deut 18:15-19 -- "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. For this is what you asked of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, "Let us not hear the voice of the LORD our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die. . .["Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die." (Ex 20:19)]

"The LORD said to me, . .'I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.' "

The thing about NT anti-types is they require a real OT figure for their pattern (type).
And we have that in either Moses, or Joshua, which would be the pattern for the NT anti-type.

Ah. Very good.

[smokydot]

Okay. . .let's review (translate: more argument about the argument) for the test at the end:
(bold type is summary outline of argument)

The issue is: you claim: "There are no types in Scripture - that is an antiquated approach."
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum...2-post913.html

You likewise claim: "The 'types' simply aren't there. The construction of a 'type' in interpreting the Scripture is artificial and reckless."
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum...8-post950.html -- at your second quote there

Those claims were in response to my presentation of a type in each of 34 books of the OT, as a refutation of your denied unity of the whole Bible,
which presentation of these types initiated the argument.
In a vain pre-emptive strike to invalidate all 34 types at once, to remove all grounds for any demonstration that I might make of the unity of the whole Bible,
you denied their very existence and validity, with your foolish, ignorant, reckless and all-encompassing claims about types, above.

So the issue is no longer the individual types themselves, you have reduced the issue simply to their existence and validity. .which takes a whole lot less ink
to demonstrate, because

That means now your foolish, ignorant, reckless and all-encompassing claims are refuted with the demonstration of just one type.
Demonstrating 34 individual types is now irrelevant, when the very existence and validity of types is set at nought in the links above.
I'm not the one who has set the new parameters for this argument. . .your foolish, ignorant, reckless, and all-emcompassing claims did that.

Nevertheless, I demonstrated five from the NT writers--Passover Lamb; High Priest; once-for-all sacrifice for sin; Mediator of the (New) Covenant; sin-cleansing blood.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum...8-post950.html -- at your second quote there

Your response was that these were "traditional types"--I assume that means they don't count. . .which I think is what you call "moving the goal posts."
I'm not sure why the NT writers' "construction of 'types' in interpreting the Scripture" doesn't count, unless it was that they were "artificial and reckless,"
but nevertheless they didn't count, or so it appeared to me.

So, as further refutation, I then demonstrated the following six types from the OT Scriptures (types = pictures of who Jesus is):

EXODUS 32:9-14, 30-34 -- Intercessor (like Moses, and High Priest) -- Ro 8:34; Heb 7:23-25, 9:24; 1 Jn 2:1

NUMBERS 20:11 (Ex 17:6) -- rock which was struck (crucifixion), and was source of sustenance -- 1 Co 10:4
--------------------(Ex 14:22-29) -- baptized into their mediator, deliverer and leader in the cloud and in the sea, depicting their submission to him -- 1 Co 10:1-2

DEUTERONOMY 18:15,18 -- prophet like Moses who was to come -- Jn 6:14-15, 7:40 1:21, 25; Lk 24:19

JOSHUA 1:5-11 -- captain of our salvation leading God's people into the promised inheritance (salvation) -- Heb 2:10

RUTH 2:20, 3:9, 4:1,14 -- GOEL, kinsman redeemer (Lev 25:48-49) -- Mt 1:21; Gal 4:5; 1 Pe 1:18-19


Now the TEST: not counting the five "traditional types," where do these six types leave your claims which so foolishly, ignorantly and recklessly negate all types,
in the above links?

And the BONUS QUESTION for those who have been paying attention: Who is the one guilty of "obvious differences" from the NT regarding types?

Bet you can't pass the test. . .and I hold no hope for your correct answer to the bonus question. . .so how about proving me wrong. . .
you could get at least this much correct on the issue.

[angellous_evangellous]

The lengths to which you will go to refuse to answer a very simple question truly is remarkable.

In all my years at RF, I've never seen someone delete and edit so many posts on one thread.

[angellous_evangellous]

Hey smoky -

I can see all your edits (all texts in order of the editing) and deleted posts, just by the accident of being on staff. It was a complete shock and surprise to me that you'd spend so much time misrepresenting yourself.

[smokydot]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

The lengths to which you will go to refuse to answer a very simple question truly is remarkable.

Methinks the pot is calling the kettle black here.

In all my years at RF, I've never seen someone delete and edit so many posts on one thread.

Yeah, in my long posts I correct a lot of typos, punctuation, paragraphing and wording (and in my short posts, too).
Is that relevant to anything, other than trying to be clear, in spite of the length?
It's easier to edit after posting than in the small space allowed before posting.

Since you seldom post more than three words, it's not an issue for you.

[smokydot]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Hey smoky -
I can see all your edits (all texts in order of the editing) and deleted posts, just by the accident of being on staff. It was a complete shock and surprise to me that you'd spend so much time misrepresenting yourself.

So show the "misrepresentation."

Back to the dance again. . .movement nine. . .try to dig up whatever you can to discredit the other guy's argument. . .kick up some dust to cloud your ignorance and inability to refute it. . .

The argument speaks for itself and stands on its own merits. . .and you can't refute it. . .
which is the reason for all the diversions from it and attempted detractions of it.

Prove me wrong in the argument below.
(You're not doing too well so far on the test at the end.)

What Day was Jesus Crucified?

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by smokydot

So show the "misrepresentation."

Back to the dance again. . .movement nine. . .try to dig up whatever you can to discredit the other guy's argument. . .kick up some dust to cloud your ignorance and inability to refute it. . .

The argument speaks for itself and stands on its own merits. . .and you can't refute it. . .
which is the reason for all the diversions from it and attempted detractions of it.

Prove me wrong in the argument below.
(You're not doing too well so far on the test at the end.)

What Day was Jesus Crucified?

There's nothing to refute!

Your statements are quite obviously false, and I ask for references so that everyone can know exactly where your falsehoods lie.

Since you are unable to provide references, we must conclude that you're just arbitrarily making stuff up.

And why should we trust that your edits are to correct typos when we've already seen how your edits are done to deceive, misdirect, and misrepresent.

Heck, at this point I'd be happy for you to admit where you plagiarized your original list from.

[angellous_evangellous]

The reason why smoky can't provide references is exactly what I said... the source that he plagiarized from did not provide them.

And from what I can see, Oral Roberts wasn't speaking about types.

Tony Cooke Ministries - Communion Messages - Passover and Beyond

In Oral Roberts’ classic sermon, The Fourth Man, and later in his book, Christ in Every Book of the Bible, he shared the following insights (modified slightly) about Jesus in the Bible:

In Genesis, He is the Seed of Woman.

In Exodus, He is the Passover Lamb.

In Leviticus, He is our High Priest.

In Numbers, He is the Pillar of Cloud by Day and the Fire by Night.

In Deuteronomy, He is the Prophet like unto Moses.

In Joshua, He is the Captain of our Salvation.

In Judges, He is our Judge and our Lawgiver.

In Ruth, He is our Kinsman-Redeemer.

In 1st and 2nd Samuel, He is our Trusted Prophet.

In Kings and Chronicles, He is our Reigning King.

In Ezra, He is our Faithful Scribe.

In Nehemiah, He is the Rebuilder of the Broken Walls of our Shattered Lives.

In Esther, He is our Mordecai.

In Job, He is our Ever-Living Redeemer.

In Psalms, He is the Lord our Shepherd.

In Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, He is our Wisdom

In Song of Solomon, He is our Lover and our Bridegroom.

In Isaiah, He is the Prince of Peace.

In Jeremiah and Lamentations, He is the Weeping Prophet.

In Ezekiel, He is the wonderful four-faced man.

In Daniel, He is the Fourth Man in the Fiery Furnace.

In Hosea, He is the Eternal Husband, forever married to the Backslider.

In Joel, He is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit.

In Amos, He is our Burden-Bearer.

In Obadiah, He is our Savior.

In Jonah, He is the Great Foreign Missionary.

In Micah, He is the Messenger with Beautiful Feet.

In Nahum, He is our Avenger.

In Habakkuk, He is the Evangelist pleading for Revival.

In Zephaniah, He is the Lord Mighty to Save.

In Haggai, He is the Restorer of the Lost Heritage.

In Zechariah, He is the Fountain Opened to the House of David for the cleansing of sin and uncleanness.

In Malachi, He is the Sun of Righteousness Rising with Healing in His Wings.

[angellous_evangellous]

I wouldn't make a habit out of lying and stealing - it's bad for credibility and worse before the Lord.

I can effortlessly spot plagiarism from Master's students and you don't do it any better than them.

One can only wonder what else you've stolen. And even worse than this: this isn't the first time for you!