Religious Education Forum  

Welcome Guest to ReligiousForums.com . You are currently not registered. When you become registered you will be able to interact with our large base of already registered users discussing topics. Some annoying Ads will also disappear when you register. Registering doesn't cost a thing and only takes a few seconds. We provide areas to chat and debate all World Religions. Please go to our register page!
Home Who's Online Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Religious Education Forum / Religious Topics / Religious Debates
Sitemap Popular RF Forums REGISTER Search Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-17-2010, 12:23 PM
Rainbow Mage's Avatar
Rainbow Mage Offline
Religion: Agnostic
Title:Learner
Shield of 10,000 Thoughts: Awarded for contributing 10,000 posts - Issue reason: For 10,000 posts. Congrats! 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,878
Frubals: 782
Rainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fire
Default Why didn't Moses punish Aaron for the Golden Calf?

This is something that's always bothered me about the golden calf story in Exodus. The story goes like this.

Exo 32:1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. 2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. 3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. 4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

We can see clearly that Aaron is responsible for most of this ordeal. He fashioned the calf and built the altar to it, and proclaimed a feast day for it. Yet Moses does not punish Aaron, instead he punishes everyone else. Why didn't Moses punish Aaron? Favortism? What do you think?
__________________
Show your pride: Gay and Proud!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-17-2010, 03:47 PM
Ilisrum Offline
Religion: Athiest
Title:Sophmore Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Gender: Male
Posts: 254
Frubals: 24
Ilisrum invested heavily in the foreign frubal economy
Default

It likely has to do with the way the editor(s) spliced the traditions together.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-17-2010, 08:11 PM
Smoke's Avatar
Smoke Offline
Title:Done here.
Shield of Knowledge: Awarded for outstanding demonstration of high knowledge in a particular field - Issue reason:  Shield of 10,000 Thoughts: Awarded for contributing 10,000 posts - Issue reason: You have achieved over 10,000 posts at RF. Congratulations!! 
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 19,902
Frubals: 3290
Smoke annoys people by trying to boss around their frubalsSmoke annoys people by trying to boss around their frubalsSmoke annoys people by trying to boss around their frubals
Smoke annoys people by trying to boss around their frubalsSmoke annoys people by trying to boss around their frubalsSmoke annoys people by trying to boss around their frubalsSmoke annoys people by trying to boss around their frubalsSmoke annoys people by trying to boss around their frubals
Default

The story of the Golden Calf is mostly Jahwist, with some Elohist and Deuteronomist interpolations. That is, there's some sort of tradition about the Golden Calf in both the north and the south, but it's only harshly condemned in the southern sources.

I don't think it's likely that the story happened as presented in Exodus. I think the northern Israelites had a tradition of representing God with a golden bull or calf, and they had a legend that the tradition went back to Aaron. The southern Judahites had the same legend, but in their version God and Moses condemned the veneration of the golden calf.

The books of Kings tell us that the northern Israelites didn't worship at Jerusalem but at Dan and Bethel, where they had golden calves set up. The Judahites were for centralizing worship at their own temple in Jerusalem, and -- at least from the time of Hezekiah -- had a strong iconoclastic streak.

So basically, I think what the story is telling us is to cast down our graven images and worship at the Jerusalem Temple like God intended.

If Moses and Aaron really existed, it's not likely that either one objected to graven images. Aaron was credited as the maker of a golden calf, and Moses as the maker of the brazen serpent, Nehushtan, that was venerated at Jerusalem until it was destroyed by Hezekiah. The early Israelites weren't iconoclasts; that came later.
__________________


"If you don't believe that Puerto Rican Americans ought to be able to get married in this country, you are a bigot. If you don't think African Americans should be allowed in the military, you are a bigot. If you think it ought to be legal to refuse to hire Asian Americans, you are a bigot. And in case you're missing the point, there's only one group in America against whom the bigots are winning in all three areas."
-Michael Dixon
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-17-2010, 08:52 PM
Pegg's Avatar
Pegg Offline
Religion: Jehovah's Witness
Title:Prolific Member
Shield of 10,000 Thoughts: Awarded for contributing 10,000 posts - Issue reason: For contributing 10,000 posts! 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: australia
Gender: Female
Posts: 10,348
Frubals: 316
Pegg tried fruballing the Parole Board, but in the end the goat & Jello incident drove their decisionPegg tried fruballing the Parole Board, but in the end the goat & Jello incident drove their decisionPegg tried fruballing the Parole Board, but in the end the goat & Jello incident drove their decisionPegg tried fruballing the Parole Board, but in the end the goat & Jello incident drove their decisionPegg tried fruballing the Parole Board, but in the end the goat & Jello incident drove their decisionPegg tried fruballing the Parole Board, but in the end the goat & Jello incident drove their decision
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senedjem View Post
This is something that's always bothered me about the golden calf story in Exodus. The story goes like this.

We can see clearly that Aaron is responsible for most of this ordeal. He fashioned the calf and built the altar to it, and proclaimed a feast day for it. Yet Moses does not punish Aaron, instead he punishes everyone else. Why didn't Moses punish Aaron? Favortism? What do you think?
Aaron was not responsible for the calf, nor did he join in worshiping the calf and when Moses asked those involved to stand on the side of the calf of the side of Jehovah, Aaron chose the side of Jehovah which showed that his motives for making the calf were not because he wished to worship it.

its most likely that the people coerced him into it which is why he wasnt punished.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-18-2010, 05:09 AM
Religion: Islam
Title:Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Gender: Undisclosed
Posts: 720
Frubals: 31
mohammed_beiruti has a pet name for each frubal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senedjem View Post
This is something that's always bothered me about the golden calf story in Exodus. The story goes like this.

Exo 32:1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. 2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. 3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. 4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

We can see clearly that Aaron is responsible for most of this ordeal. He fashioned the calf and built the altar to it, and proclaimed a feast day for it. Yet Moses does not punish Aaron, instead he punishes everyone else. Why didn't Moses punish Aaron? Favortism? What do you think?
we have a different story in qura'an regarding golden calf and Aaron

read Ta-ha verse 85
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-18-2010, 05:25 AM
Title:Sophmore Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Gender: Undisclosed
Posts: 212
Frubals: 28
islam means peace is the leader of a covert group of mutant frubals
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senedjem View Post
This is something that's always bothered me about the golden calf story in Exodus. The story goes like this.

Exo 32:1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. 2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. 3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. 4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

We can see clearly that Aaron is responsible for most of this ordeal. He fashioned the calf and built the altar to it, and proclaimed a feast day for it. Yet Moses does not punish Aaron, instead he punishes everyone else. Why didn't Moses punish Aaron? Favortism? What do you think?
I think you are talking about the event when some people at the time of Prophet Moosa alisalam make a cow or calf (i donot know the right word in english) and start worshiping that.

First of all i tatally disagree with you that Prophae Aaron alisalm is respnsible for that, i donot know where did you take the passage , if you read the Quran you will find that the person named 'samri' is basically the main person responsible and obvisly those too who just start worshiping stones

Quran says in surah 20 Verse

83. (When Moses was up on the Mount, Allah said "What made thee hasten in advance of thy people, O Moses?"

84. He replied: "Behold, they are close on my footsteps: I hastened to thee, O my Lord, to please thee."

85. (Allah) said: "We have tested thy people in thy absence: the Samiri has led them astray."

86. So Moses returned to his people in a state of indignation and sorrow. He said: "O my people! did not your Lord make a handsome promise toyou? Did then the promise seem to you long (in coming)? Or did ye desirethat Wrath should descend from your Lord on you, and so ye broke yourpromise to me?"

87. They said: "We broke not the promise to thee, as far as lay in our power: but we were made to carry the weight of the ornaments of the(whole) people, and we threw them (into the fire), and that was what theSamiri suggested.


88. "Then he brought out (of the fire) before the (people) the image of a calf: It seemed to low: so they said: This is your god, and thegod of Moses, but (Moses) has forgotten!"

89. Could they not see that it could not return them a word (for answer), and that it had no power either to harm them or to do them good?

90. Aaron had already, before this said to them: "O my people! ye are being tested in this: for verily your Lord is (Allah) Most Gracious; sofollow me and obey my command."

91. They had said: "We will not abandon this cult, but we will devote ourselves to it until Moses returns to us."

92. (Moses) said: "O Aaron! what kept thee back, when thou sawest them going wrong,

93. "From following me? Didst thou then disobey my order?"

94. (Aaron) replied: "O son of my mother! Seize (me) not by my beard nor by (the hair of) my head! Truly I feared lest thou shouldst say,'Thou has caused a division among the children of Israel, and thou didstnot respect my word!'"

95. (Moses) said: "What then is thy case, O Samiri?"

96. He replied: "I saw what they saw not: so I took a handful (of dust) from the footprint of the Messenger, and threw it (into the calf): thusdid my soul suggest to me."

97. (Moses) said: "Get thee gone! but thy (punishment) in this life will be that thou wilt say, 'touch me not'; and moreover (for a futurepenalty) thou hast a promise that will not fail: Now look at thy god, ofwhom thou hast become a devoted worshipper: We will certainly (melt) it ina blazing fire and scatter it broadcast in the sea!"


98. But the god of you all is the One Allah: there is no god but He: all things He comprehends in His knowledge.

99. Thus do We relate to thee some stories of what happened before: for We have sent thee a Message from Our own Presence.

100. If any do turn away therefrom, verily they will bear a burden on the Day of judgment;



Hope this clarifies you
__________________
Surah Ikhlas (Holy Qur'an 112:1-4) is:
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.

http://islam-faq.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-18-2010, 09:52 AM
Poisonshady313's Avatar
Poisonshady313 Offline
Religion: Jewish
Title:Intrepid Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,876
Frubals: 273
Poisonshady313 said your frubals smell funnyPoisonshady313 said your frubals smell funnyPoisonshady313 said your frubals smell funnyPoisonshady313 said your frubals smell funnyPoisonshady313 said your frubals smell funny
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegg View Post
its most likely that the people coerced him into it which is why he wasnt punished.
In addition to that, Aaron figured he could buy some time so that Moses would come back and the people would abandon their folly of relying on a golden calf.

He said "Remove the rings of gold that are in the ears of your wives, sons, and daughters, and bring them to me".

He honestly didn't expect them to go ahead and do it... he told the men to take it from their wives, sons, and daughters... yet the people ended up giving it willingly. Aaron didn't count on that.

And he said "A festival for the Lord tomorrow"

Tomorrow and not tonight. Again, he was trying to buy some time for Moses to get back, so that the people might abandon their folly.

When you say "A festival tomorrow"... you might think mid-day to about evening. Aaron didn't count on them rising early to start bringing offerings.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-18-2010, 10:00 AM
Poisonshady313's Avatar
Poisonshady313 Offline
Religion: Jewish
Title:Intrepid Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,876
Frubals: 273
Poisonshady313 said your frubals smell funnyPoisonshady313 said your frubals smell funnyPoisonshady313 said your frubals smell funnyPoisonshady313 said your frubals smell funnyPoisonshady313 said your frubals smell funny
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senedjem View Post

We can see clearly that Aaron is responsible for most of this ordeal. He fashioned the calf and built the altar to it, and proclaimed a feast day for it. Yet Moses does not punish Aaron, instead he punishes everyone else. Why didn't Moses punish Aaron? Favortism? What do you think?
Something to consider: Not only didn't Moses punish Aaron... but God didn't punish Aaron either. God ordained that Aaron become the High Priest, and that all priests descend from him.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-18-2010, 10:39 AM
arimoff Offline
Religion: jewish
Title:BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: new york
Gender: Male
Posts: 720
Frubals: 69
arimoff has a stash of frubals in the Cayman Islandsarimoff has a stash of frubals in the Cayman Islands
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by islam means peace View Post
I think you are talking about the event when some people at the time of Prophet Moosa alisalam make a cow or calf (i donot know the right word in english) and start worshiping that.

First of all i tatally disagree with you that Prophae Aaron alisalm is respnsible for that, i donot know where did you take the passage
Are you serious? did you ever hear of a book called Torah?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-18-2010, 10:40 AM
Rainbow Mage's Avatar
Rainbow Mage Offline
Religion: Agnostic
Title:Learner
Shield of 10,000 Thoughts: Awarded for contributing 10,000 posts - Issue reason: For 10,000 posts. Congrats! 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,878
Frubals: 782
Rainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fireRainbow Mage categorically denies any involvement in setting your frubals on fire
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
The story of the Golden Calf is mostly Jahwist, with some Elohist and Deuteronomist interpolations. That is, there's some sort of tradition about the Golden Calf in both the north and the south, but it's only harshly condemned in the southern sources.

I don't think it's likely that the story happened as presented in Exodus. I think the northern Israelites had a tradition of representing God with a golden bull or calf, and they had a legend that the tradition went back to Aaron. The southern Judahites had the same legend, but in their version God and Moses condemned the veneration of the golden calf.

The books of Kings tell us that the northern Israelites didn't worship at Jerusalem but at Dan and Bethel, where they had golden calves set up. The Judahites were for centralizing worship at their own temple in Jerusalem, and -- at least from the time of Hezekiah -- had a strong iconoclastic streak.

So basically, I think what the story is telling us is to cast down our graven images and worship at the Jerusalem Temple like God intended.

If Moses and Aaron really existed, it's not likely that either one objected to graven images. Aaron was credited as the maker of a golden calf, and Moses as the maker of the brazen serpent, Nehushtan, that was venerated at Jerusalem until it was destroyed by Hezekiah. The early Israelites weren't iconoclasts; that came later.
I think you raise the most interesting point in the whole thread. I agree with much of what you say here, btw.
__________________
Show your pride: Gay and Proud!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:12 PM.


Copyright 2014 Advameg, Inc.

SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.