Quran is free of errors

[JMorris]

Originally Posted by Fatihah

Response: That's not evidence. That's information. You are claiming that your information is what the qur'an is referring to. That is where you have no proof. You have come up with your own assertions in order to validate your point, but that does not make your point true. You simply saying that Ptolemy's work being referred to in the qur'an does not make it true. Proving that this is the case makes it true.

can i assume that since gnostic's interpretation of the quran is invalid, that your interpretation is equally invalid? all we're dealing with here are interpretations. or did god speak to you personally, and tell you exactly what everything in the quran means?

i have seen no "proof" of anything from you or any other muslim on this thread other than "we are muslim, so we know; you are not muslim, so you dont know"

[Fatihah]

Originally Posted by darkendless

Gnostic isn't Islamic, to anyone but muslims Quranic scripture is a waste of paper.

The point a lot of us are trying to get at, is, if the Quran is full of scientific miracles, then muslims should have known 1400 years ago. But now that non-muslims are making discoveries, you're claiming that the Quran found them 1400 years ago. However, if the Quran found them 1400 years ago, we'd have known about it 1400 years ago, and not 300 years ago. So what scholars are doing is making the Quran fit to science. There is no merit in that.

Response: But you did know. Or at least, you were informed. But you rejected it because it was from Allah. 1400+ years ago, the only logic we had to back up the claim is "because Allah said so". So non-muslims like yourself rejected it because you are not muslims.

What makes it a miracle is because through advanced technology of today, these things were confirmed to be true to the non-muslims. But 1400+ years ago, this technology did not exists and yet it is still determined to be a fact in the qur'an.

[Fatihah]

[quote=JMorris;1582037]can i assume that since gnostic's interpretation of the quran is invalid, that your interpretation is equally invalid?

Response: Sure, if you can prove it to be invalid.

Quote: JMorris
all we're dealing with here are interpretations. or did god speak to you personally, and tell you exactly what everything in the quran means?

Response: He told Muhhammad (pbuh) what it means and anyone who is humble and open-minded can understand the meaning as well.

Quote: JMorris
i have seen no "proof" of anything from you or any other muslim on this thread other than "we are muslim, so we know; you are not muslim, so you dont know"

Response: You have never challenged any reasoning fully either or produced any proof that the qur'an is in error either. So if you don't know something, that would be due to your actions.

[Shahzad]

Originally Posted by Fatihah

Response: The word "heavens" or "firaments" refer to the earth's atmosphere. We know so because when it is being used in the qur'an, it's definition is the same as the atmosphere.

If that were the case then it's also saying that the Sun, Moon and stars are in the atmosphere, with stars in the lowest layer. The twisted interpretation of heavens as atmosphere is a very recent one and not mainstream at all. It leads to even more absurdities than the standard interpretation.

For the last time, regardless of how it's interpreted the concept of seven heavens predates the Quran and Bible!

[JMorris]

Response: Sure, if you can prove it to be invalid.

Islam cant be proven to be true or untrue. so how could anyone prove that an interpretation of Islam to be true or untrue? gnostic's interpretation is either equally valid as yours, or your interpretation is equally as invalid as his. either all interpretations are valid, or all interpretations are invalid.

Response: You have never challenged any reasoning fully either or produced any proof that the qur'an is in error either. So if you don't know something, that would be due to your actions.

proving that the quran "is in error" isnt my responsibility. you are claiming it is perfect, which you have yet to prove. for me, the fact that the quran claims that humans are made of clay is all the proof i need that the quran "is in error". now, if you were to ask if the quran was FULL 100% of errors, i would probably say no. not everything in the quran can be proven to be true or untrue, so you cant prove that it is 100% true, or 100% untrue. but like i said, humans arent made of clay, so the quran isnt "free of errors". that pretty much ends the debate on this thread for me.

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE:Shahzad]If that were the case then it's also saying that the Sun, Moon and stars are in the atmosphere, with stars in the lowest layer. The twisted interpretation of heavens as atmosphere is a very recent one and not mainstream at all. It leads to even more absurdities than the standard interpretation.

Response: And you still have failed to provide any proof that the qur'an says that the stars are in the lowest layer.

Quote: Shahzad
For the last time, regardless of how it's interpreted the concept of seven heavens predates the Quran and Bible!

Response: No one and no where was it stated that the 7 layers of the atmosphere is fact before the qur'an mentioned it as such. Since you claim that it was, produce your proof.

[Fatihah]

[quote=JMorris;1582053]Islam cant be proven to be true or untrue. so how could anyone prove that an interpretation of Islam to be true or untrue? gnostic's interpretation is either equally valid as yours, or your interpretation is equally as invalid as his. either all interpretations are valid, or all interpretations are invalid.

Response: The qur'an can and has been proven to be true.

Quote: JMorris
proving that the quran "is in error" isnt my responsibility. you are claiming it is perfect, which you have yet to prove. for me, the fact that the quran claims that humans are made of clay is all the proof i need that the quran "is in error". now, if you were to ask if the quran was FULL 100% of errors, i would probably say no. not everything in the quran can be proven to be true or untrue, so you cant prove that it is 100% true, or 100% untrue. but like i said, humans arent made of clay, so the quran isnt "free of errors". that pretty much ends the debate on this thread for me.

Response: But you have not proven that humans are not made of clay. But to clear things up, when the qur'an speaks of man being created from clay, he is referring to one man alone, Adam. He was the very first man and was created from clay. If this is an error, you must have the right answer. So what is the answer? How was the first man created? You provide nothing. So your own response shows that you have no logical reasoning to call it an error.

As for me not providing any proof, again you have not pointed out any error in any of my claims. If you can't point out the error and supply the right answer, you have no logical reason to say that it has not been proven.

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Fatihah

Response: The qur'an can and has been proven to be true.

Not in this thread.
Not on this forum.
In fact, not on any forum I have been on.

The only thing that has been done is some people saying it has been proven.
Yet with all their talk, they present nothing that would constitute 'proof'.
They present, at best, their opinion that it has been proven.

Originally Posted by Fatihah

Response: But you have not proven that humans are not made of clay.

and in the world of debate, well the real world, not your fantasy land, it is on the person making the claim to support their claim.

You have done nothing to support your claim other than jump up and down screaming that the koran said it and since you think the koran is from god, it has to be correct.

Sadly, this circular reasoning only works for your choir.

Originally Posted by Fatihah

If this is an error, you must have the right answer.

Even my eight year old understands that this statement is merely desperation logic.

Originally Posted by Fatihah

So what is the answer? How was the first man created? You provide nothing. So your own response shows that you have no logical reasoning to call it an error.

More desperation logic.

Originally Posted by Fatihah

As for me not providing any proof, again you have not pointed out any error in any of my claims.

There is a difference between "not pointing out errors" and "refusing to see an error for what it is."

Your mastery of the second does not make the errors go away.

Originally Posted by Fatihah

If you can't point out the error and supply the right answer, you have no logical reason to say that it has not been proven.

I know you will not be able to understand it because your beliefs will not let you, but one does not have to present (or even know) the right answer to point out errors.

[Shahzad]

Originally Posted by Fatihah

Response: And you still have failed to provide any proof that the qur'an says that the stars are in the lowest layer.

This is my final response to you on this topic, because I can see you won't try to back up anything you say.

Oh ffs, this is getting ridiculous. Did you forget about the verse that mentioned "We have adorned the lowest one with lights"? Regardless of that, stars, Moon and Sun are not in any layer of the atmosphere. You seem to forget or simply ignore things that have been mentioned to you just a few posts ago, I don't have to repeat it. You're becoming a joke now.

Response: No one and no where was it stated that the 7 layers of the atmosphere is fact before the qur'an mentioned it as such. Since you claim that it was, produce your proof.

This is a train wreck! All the Quran mentions is the seven heavens, not layers of atmosphere. Now you're claiming that Quran states that seven heavens refers to atmospheric layers (which also contain Sun, Moon and stars), it doesn't. It just mentions the same seven heavens going back to ancient times, except with stars in the lowest heaven. Don't think people don't notice you trying to change the goalposts when you can't defend your statements. How cowardly.

Fatihah is a prime example of a mind crippled by fundamentalism.

[Fatihah]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

Not in this thread.
Not on this forum.
In fact, not on any forum I have been on.

The only thing that has been done is some people saying it has been proven.
Yet with all their talk, they present nothing that would constitute 'proof'.
They present, at best, their opinion that it has been proven.


and in the world of debate, well the real world, not your fantasy land, it is on the person making the claim to support their claim.

You have done nothing to support your claim other than jump up and down screaming that the koran said it and since you think the koran is from god, it has to be correct.

Sadly, this circular reasoning only works for your choir.


Even my eight year old understands that this statement is merely desperation logic.


More desperation logic.


There is a difference between "not pointing out errors" and "refusing to see an error for what it is."

Your mastery of the second does not make the errors go away.


I know you will not be able to understand it because your beliefs will not let you, but one does not have to present (or even know) the right answer to point out errors.

Response: It has been proven throughout this forum and your own words has confirmed this. When asked to answer the challenge of the qur'an to prove it's authenticity, you responded:

[QUOTE:Mestemia]To answer your completely irrelevant question, I do not know.

There, now fly back to your flock and claim your shallow irrelevant "victory".(End quote) (post 615 of the "Propaganda: Why is it necessary for islam" thread).

Your own words show as an example of your denial to the truth of the qur'an.