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  #371  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by eselam View Post
well thats because it is a great miracle.



you are right, the quran doesn't tell us how to discover things, it just tells us about things. it is up to us to find them and analyse them.
we aren't thanking the quran for the discoveries, we are simply acknowledging that what it has and what we have disovered are the same thing. they do not go against each other. the quran is a starting point to many things if not all
I will not argue, there are some things in the Quran which are out of the ordinary for a religious text, but that is it, no miracles. As far as I can see, it does not lie with the religion, but with the people. Aryabhatt was a Hindu, and he did a LOT of great things, but we cannot credit the religion for it, maybe the people, but it is the individual that does it.
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  #372  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Penguinoini View Post
I will not argue, there are some things in the Quran which are out of the ordinary for a religious text, but that is it, no miracles. As far as I can see, it does not lie with the religion, but with the people. Aryabhatt was a Hindu, and he did a LOT of great things, but we cannot credit the religion for it, maybe the people, but it is the individual that does it.
but he has been influenced by his religion.

if his religion spoke about something in brief , then he goes to make the discovery or actually prove that very point, then he has been influenced by his religion. the religion takes all the credit, he would not have made the discovery if it wasn't mentioned in the scripture wich was the starting point of the discoverie.

how would someone prove that people eat to generate strenght from food, unless someone starved and became very weak, then when eating something he gains his energy. see the starvation was the starting point.
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  #373  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Penguinoini View Post
You say it like your proud. So Muhammed was a paedophile?
no muhammed was not a pedophile, he never had any sexual relations with her untill she was older.

but what i am not proud of is, non muslims being proud of this:

Grandfather sentenced in sex abuse case
Published: December 5th, 2007



NORWICH A man convicted of molesting his granddaughter apologized to the court and his family Monday, but did not apologize to the victim or admit his guilt.

you can read it here

The Evening Sun | Grandfather sentenced in sex abuse case

and Don, we all know that this isn't the only case of the sort.
try to remember about the actions of non muslims that are being done in todays society before you take a look at the society that about 1400 years old, about which you and i have very limited knowledge.
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  #374  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by eselam View Post
but he has been influenced by his religion.

if his religion spoke about something in brief , then he goes to make the discovery or actually prove that very point, then he has been influenced by his religion. the religion takes all the credit, he would not have made the discovery if it wasn't mentioned in the scripture wich was the starting point of the discoverie.

how would someone prove that people eat to generate strenght from food, unless someone starved and became very weak, then when eating something he gains his energy. see the starvation was the starting point.
This may be so for Muslim scientists, but i think almost any other scientist is never driven by religion, maybe philosophy, but no religion. Even then, i highly doubt Arabic mathematicians and scientists kept their work and religion seperate.
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  #375  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Penguinoini View Post
This may be so for Muslim scientists, but i think almost any other scientist is never driven by religion, maybe philosophy, but no religion.
exactly see, something is always the starting point, and for muslims it is the relgion.

Quote:
Even then, i highly doubt Arabic mathematicians and scientists kept their work and religion seperate.
islam is life for us, it isn't just another part of life, so everything that we do is because of religion. the way we present our self is because of our religion, the way we talk is because of our religion, everything that we do is because of our religion, but we must also remember that not everyone can be perfect, many people do things that aren't part of religion.

a christian man said this to me a few months ago

"if we all live our religions to the full, the world would be a better place, it doesn't matter that they are not the same religion"

his point was that all religions are peacefull and are encouraging it's followers to be good people, but some do not listen, so thats why you see one religion going against another.
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فَتَبَارَكَ اللَّهُ أَحْسَنُ الْخَالِقِينَ
... So blessed is Allah , the best of creators. [23:14]
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  #376  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Zhakir View Post
No, no, no. That won't do, at all.

You are trying to compare a vague, poorly worded verse from your sacred text with a concise, well researched article that is based on peer reviewed scientific data.

This is the very crux of your entire position.

You are claiming that the Koran is a scientific book, that has provided mankind with all of this information - and instead of using the Koran, you have to resort to a secular text to bolster your argument.

Why is the data that you are using not listed in the Koran?
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  #377  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by The Voice of Reason View Post
You are claiming that the Koran is a scientific book,
the quran isn't a science book. it is a guide.
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... So blessed is Allah , the best of creators. [23:14]
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  #378  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:50 AM
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The Voice of Reason set the fashion world abuzz by walking in wearing only a frubal-hair coat
The Voice of Reason set the fashion world abuzz by walking in wearing only a frubal-hair coatThe Voice of Reason set the fashion world abuzz by walking in wearing only a frubal-hair coatThe Voice of Reason set the fashion world abuzz by walking in wearing only a frubal-hair coatThe Voice of Reason set the fashion world abuzz by walking in wearing only a frubal-hair coatThe Voice of Reason set the fashion world abuzz by walking in wearing only a frubal-hair coat
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Originally Posted by YmirGF View Post
Hehe. This is coming from someone who is on record as saying all old people you have met are stupid? Eselam, there is a bit of a difference between outfoxing a very young man and outfoxing a grown adult.
Well, to be fair about it, Ymir, we have to give eselam credit.

After all, he is admitting that he and Zhakir haven't been able to defend their position against the rational arguments being presented.
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  #379  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:53 AM
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The Voice of Reason set the fashion world abuzz by walking in wearing only a frubal-hair coat
The Voice of Reason set the fashion world abuzz by walking in wearing only a frubal-hair coatThe Voice of Reason set the fashion world abuzz by walking in wearing only a frubal-hair coatThe Voice of Reason set the fashion world abuzz by walking in wearing only a frubal-hair coatThe Voice of Reason set the fashion world abuzz by walking in wearing only a frubal-hair coatThe Voice of Reason set the fashion world abuzz by walking in wearing only a frubal-hair coat
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Originally Posted by eselam View Post
if you can't stand it then you are free to leave, this applies to everyone.
Yourself included - right?

This thread really needs to be shut down. It has devolved into nothing more than two zealots proseltyzing about their sacred text, and the rest of us trying to spit into the wind.
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  #380  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by The Voice of Reason View Post
Well, to be fair about it, Ymir, we have to give eselam credit.

After all, he is admitting that he and Zhakir haven't been able to defend their position against the rational arguments being presented.
is that the best you can do to deffend your age difference to all the other younger members here?

if so then why bring it up in the first place, we all know that there is a varying age difference here in RF, so why bring that cheap argument when there is nothing more to say.
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