Who is Ahmad Nishitoba?? (Moses, Earth, Kingdom, translation, mission)

[Zakaria]

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

.:The difference between a Messenger and a Prophet:.

(All verses are from Quran)

According to Quran, a prophet is always a messenger. A messenger is not always a prophet.

Prophets are the ones who get the scripture. However muslims, like Yusuf Ali, conceal this truth:

Khalifa
[2:213] The people used to be one community when GOD sent the prophets as bearers of good news, as well as warners. He sent down with them the scripture, bearing the truth, to judge among the people in their disputes. Ironically, those who received the scripture were the ones who rejected any new scripture, despite clear proofs given to them. This is due to jealousy on their part. GOD guides those who believe to the truth that is disputed by all others, in accordance with His will. GOD guides whoever wills in a straight path.

Yusuf Ali
[2:213] Mankind was one single nation, and God sent Messengers* with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. God by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For God guided whom He will to a path that is straight.

*Zakaria: this translator is the most famous in the muslim world, yet he conceals the word: "Nabeyoon = prophets", in order to claim that it is the messengers who get the scripture/book !

Pickthal
[2:213] Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Scripture with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed. And only those unto whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it, after clear proofs had come unto them, through hatred one of another. And Allah by His Will guided those who believe unto the truth of that concerning which they differed. Allah guideth whom He will unto a straight path.

Shakir
[2:213] (All) people are a single nation; so Allah raised prophets as bearers of good news and as warners, and He revealed with them the Book with truth, that it might judge between people in that in which they differed; and none but the very people who were given it differed about it after clear arguments had come to them, revolting among themselves; so Allah has guided by His will those who believe to the truth about which they differed and Allah guides whom He pleases to the right path.

Let's look at another verse, that tells us that it is the prophets who get the scripture/book, and that a messenger confirms an existing scripture.

Khalifa
[3:81] GOD took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."

Yusuf Ali
[3:81] Behold! God took the covenant of the prophets*, saying: "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you an apostle*, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." God said: "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

*Zakaria: here, he can't put "Messengers" instead of "prophets" like he did before, because the original Arabic verse mentions both words (Nabeyoon = prophets) and (Rasoul = messenger/apostle).

Pickthal
[3:81] When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there will come unto you a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall help him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you) in this (matter) ? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you.

Shakir
[3:81] And when Allah made a covenant through the prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and wisdom -- then an apostle comes to you verifying that which is with you, you must believe in him, and you must aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.

Not a single verse in Quran says that it is the messenger who delivers the scripture, so where do we get this information from? In verse 33:40, we read that Muhammad is a messenger and the final prophet. Which means Quran is the final book, no more messengers will be prophets. God said Muhammad is the final prophet, God did not say final messenger and final prophet. It is a human trait to believe that the messenger who went to them is the final messenger:

Yusuf Ali
[40:34] "And to you there came Joseph in times gone by, with Clear Signs, but ye ceased not to doubt of the (Mission) for which he had come: At length, when he died, ye said: 'No apostle will God send after him.' Thus doth God leave to stray such as transgress and live in doubt,-

Who came after Joseph? The famous ones! Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. God is telling us that we are not to say this is the final messenger, or that is the final one. He alone decides that. But as long as He told us that Muhammad is a messenger and the final prophet, we understand that there are no more scriptures.

Quran is perfect, God knew that the muslims will exchange the meaning of prophet/messenger. God has written the Quran in such a way that the first word is what you are first, the second word is what you become, the third is what you become later etc.

So, according to Quran, everyone sent from God is called messenger. An angel or a human:

Angel --> messenger, or Human --> messenger

Malakan Rasoula, or Basharan Rasoula (original arabic Quran)

One is first an angel or a human/man/mortal, before he was a sent messenger.

Khalifa
[17:93] "Or unless you own a luxurious mansion, or unless you climb into the sky. Even if you do climb, we will not believe unless you bring a book that we can read." Say, "Glory be to my Lord. Am I any more than a human messenger?"

[17:95] Say, "If the earth were inhabited by angels, we would have sent down to them from the sky an angel messenger."

Yusuf Ali
[17:93] "Or thou have a house adorned with gold, or thou mount a ladder right into the skies. No, we shall not even believe in thy mounting until thou send down to us a book that we could read." Say: "Glory to my Lord! Am I aught but a man,- an apostle?"

[17:95] Say, "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for an apostle."

Pickthal
[17:93] Or thou have a house of gold; or thou ascend up into heaven, and even then we will put no faith in thine ascension till thou bring down for us a book that we can read. Say (O Muhammad): My Lord be Glorified! Am I aught save a mortal messenger ?

[17:95] Say: If there were in the earth angels walking secure, We had sent down for them from heaven an angel as messenger.

Shakir
[17:93] Or you should have a house of gold, or you should ascend into heaven, and we will not believe in your ascending until you bring down to us a book which we may read. Say: Glory be to my Lord; am I aught but a mortal apostle?

[17:95] Say: Had there been in the earth angels walking about as settlers, We would certainly have sent down to them from the heaven an angel as an apostle.

This system. (angel -> messenger) and (human -> messenger) is the same all over the Quran, with prophet as well (messenger -> prophet). God has provided us with two examples; Moses and Ismail that they were:

Messenger --> Prophet
Rasoulan Nabia (origianl arabic Quran)

Khalifa
[19:51] Mention in the scripture Moses. He was devoted, and he was a messenger prophet.

[19:54] And mention in the scripture Ismail. He was truthful when he made a promise, and he was a messenger prophet.

Yusuf Ali
[19:51] Also mention in the Book (the story of) Moses: for he was specially chosen, and he was an apostle (and) a prophet.

[19:54] Also mention in the Book (the story of) Isma'il: He was (strictly) true to what he promised, and he was an apostle (and) a prophet.

Pickthal
[19:51] And make mention in the Scripture of Moses. Lo! he was chosen, and he was a messenger (of Allah), a prophet.

[19:54] And make mention in the Scripture of Ishmael. Lo! he was a keeper of his promise, and he was a messenger (of Allah), a prophet.

Shakir
[19:51] And mention Musa in the Book; surely he was one purified, and he was an apostle, a prophet.

[19:54] And mention Ismail in the Book; surely he was truthful in (his) promise, and he was an apostle, a prophet.

Which means, Moses/Ismail was a
human --> messenger --> prophet
like us --> sent from God --> with a book

Zakaria

[Zakaria]

Peace,

[33:40] Muhammad was not the father of any man among you. He was a messenger of GOD and the final prophet. GOD is fully aware of all things.

Which means Quran is the final scripture to humanity.

Zakaria

[EiNsTeiN]

You didn't add much, we all know there is a difference between a prophet and a messenger, and scholars had many views about this issue...
You didn't show me exactly the difference...I just want a simple sentence rather than a long post...

[EiNsTeiN]

Wait a minute, lets talk the basics again..
Suppose God sent messengers after Muhammed (SAW) as you claim..
You say messengers are sent to confirm the scripture and God's message...

When exactly did we leave worshipping God, and stop taking the Quran as our scripture?
Is that all because we respect our prophet whom the message was sent with?
Is that all because we tried to follow his way of worshipping God, and because we were obeying God when He asked us to follow His prophet?

I dont get where exactly is the corruption that this new messenger is trying to elliminate?
We are still hanging out with God's message and His Holy book, as well as obeying and respecting His prophet..

[Zakaria]

Originally Posted by EiNsTeiN

You didn't add much, we all know there is a difference between a prophet and a messenger, and scholars had many views about this issue...
You didn't show me exactly the difference...I just want a simple sentence rather than a long post...

I put a simple sentence, and then I showed the verses proving this from Quran.

Originally Posted by Zakaria

According to Quran, a prophet is always a messenger. A messenger is not always a prophet.

I added more than you think, all muslim scholars apparently don't know the difference, which is found in Quran.

Zakaria

[EiNsTeiN]

Actually, this issue is not a fact for scholars, and many scholars still arguing it..
So, the door may be open for this phrase to be correct..
I will hypothetically agree with you, just for the topics sake...So:

Originally Posted by EiNsTeiN

I dont get where exactly is the corruption that this new messenger is trying to elliminate?

[Zakaria]

Peace,

Originally Posted by EiNsTeiN

Actually, this issue is a fact for scholars, and many scholars still arguing it..
So, the door may be open for this phrase to be correct..
I will hypothetically agree with you, just for the topics sake...

No, if we leave everything to the scholars, then where is our resposibility. If the scholars tell us information that contradict Quran, Why still follow them? The difference between a messenger and a prophet is crystal clear in Quran.

Originally Posted by EiNsTeiN

I dont get where exactly is the corruption that this new messenger is trying to elliminate?

Firstly, I'd like to make a correction. Ahmad Nishitoba is not the purifing messenger, it is Rashad Khalifa (1935-1990).

Rashad Khalifa was sent to purify the religion of Abraham, Submission, from all pollution of idol worship of the powerless messengers/prophets/saits etc, and to devote the religion absolutely to God alone.

Rashad translated Quran into English, and wrote 38 appendices in his book.

For more information, please search for "the 38 appendices of the authorized English translation of Quran", they are available on many site on the internet.

Secondly, Ahmad Nishitoba is sent now to establish this purified religion on Earth.
Zakaria

[EiNsTeiN]

Just a small correction of what I said:

Originally Posted by EiNsTeiN

Actually, this issue is a fact for scholars, and many scholars still arguing it..

Actually, this issue is not a fact for scholars, and many scholars still arguing it..
I forgot to add the ''not'' !!...sorry

To be continued...

[TashaN]

Dear Zakaria,

I remember going through this issue with some of my friends in the Baha'i faith and this conversation about nabi and rasul will never end in these types of discussions.

Anyway, I don't know which religion you are talking about, but if you are talking about Islam so there is no prophet or messenger after Mohammed "peace be upon him".



O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

Source: http://www.islamicity.com/articles/A...ref=IC0107-322

[Zakaria]

Peace The Truth,

Originally Posted by The Truth

O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

Muhammad would never say that, he would never disobey Almighty God, and claim that Quran is not enough. This Hadith is a lie attributed to the prophet by Satan in order to divert the people from the real pure final message to humanity.

[Quran 17:45] When you read the Quran, we place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier.

[17:46] We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Quran alone, they run away in aversion.

Muhammad: "Verily I have left amongst you that which will never lead you astray, the BOOK OF ALLAH, which if you hold fast you shall never go astray. And beware of transgressing the limits set in the matters of religion, for it is transgression of religion, that brought destruction to (many people) before you." Prophet Muhammad's Last Sermon

Zakaria